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Meanwhile, in real world, Elon announced that the Tesla pick up is coming...





https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/elon-musk-says-tesla-pickup-will-be-revealed-in-two-to-three-months/


Ford will be ready to figth it, with the Rivian pick up and its own electric F-series.
Real world? Not quite for either BEV truck. Not yet.

It will be interesting to see how they stack up though, for sure. I envision the Tesla truck to be more techy, and the Ford to be more worky.
 

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"2. There is plenty of conclusive proof that increased levels of CO2 are actually good for all life." . Not good for all life. Increases global warming, so rising oceans and more extreme weather, more droughts may cause food crisis or am I wrong?
 

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"2. There is plenty of conclusive proof that increased levels of CO2 are actually good for all life." . Not good for all life. Increases global warming, so rising oceans and more extreme weather, more droughts may cause food crisis or am I wrong?
Who is right?
Many scientists are quick to claim we are almost at a tipping point of 400 ppm CO2, and that is causing bad weather and heating our planet and humans are the main cause.

Many scientists are also quick to point out that life on Earth has flourished, for many millions of years, with CO2 levels of 3000-5000 ppm, and that extreme weather has always existed. Obviosuly, man and the industrial revolution did not cause any of that.


We also know that Temperature fluctuations are constant thorughout history and often coincide with rising and falling CO2. But that does not mean that CO2 is the causation of increases or decrease in temps. They know this because summer and winter levels alone swing on a CO2 level graph, based on obvious seasonal vegatation.


What confuses me is that nobody wants to discuss this. Everyone has their side, either alarmist or denier, and will not change their minds. Which is fine, except one of those sides wants to drastically alter the life we live in, based on controversial beliefs and math models.

This is nothing new. I have lived my whole life in panic from false predictions. Now I see it in my kids who say, and I quote.......why bother with a career when the world will soon end. It breaks my heart and I can't get through to them.
 

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Just watched TFLcar test their 2019 Tesla model X long range with a small trailer, I don't think one has to worry about EV pickups crowding the market.
 

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The trailer was again the weight of the Model X itself, 4500 pounds plus the significant aerodynamic drag increase. If they had used the new 'Raven' Model X with the permanent magnetic motor on the front axle instead of an induction motor it would have done slightly better.
Yeah I agree, you need a lot more battery capacity to tow 100s of miles without a recharge. Can be done if u have the patience but towing is often a time is money matter! Plug-in hybrid trucks however do not have this limitation, can use liquid fuel. Day to day driving can use little fuel but for trips there is no problem. Solid state batteries or another advancement ready for mass use can solve the issue.
Who know how much battery capacity Rivian and tesla pickup will have.
 

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Who is right?
Many scientists are quick to claim we are almost at a tipping point of 400 ppm CO2, and that is causing bad weather and heating our planet and humans are the main cause.

Many scientists are also quick to point out that life on Earth has flourished, for many millions of years, with CO2 levels of 3000-5000 ppm, and that extreme weather has always existed. Obviosuly, man and the industrial revolution did not cause any of that.


We also know that Temperature fluctuations are constant thorughout history and often coincide with rising and falling CO2. But that does not mean that CO2 is the causation of increases or decrease in temps. They know this because summer and winter levels alone swing on a CO2 level graph, based on obvious seasonal vegatation.


What confuses me is that nobody wants to discuss this. Everyone has their side, either alarmist or denier, and will not change their minds. Which is fine, except one of those sides wants to drastically alter the life we live in, based on controversial beliefs and math models.

This is nothing new. I have lived my whole life in panic from false predictions. Now I see it in my kids who say, and I quote.......why bother with a career when the world will soon end. It breaks my heart and I can't get through to them.
We do not want to discuss this because just like 9/11 truthers, just like Birthers, just like Flat Earthers, just like evolution denialists, just like anti vaxxers ... you're pulling 'evidence' and 'scientists' and 'need for debate' out of thin air of conspiracy theories ... there is no debate. The science is settled. We're causing global warming / climate change. CO2 is the mechanism. This is having seriously damaging impacts on all ecosystems, this will make it hard for humans to live on this planet. Though a lucky handful of small locations may see their climate improved, the vast majority of regions, and the vast majority of people will experience life getting worse due to sea level rise, extreme weather patterns, and other impacts. **** the Russians tried to celebrate climate change warming the inhospitable Siberia - now their precious warmer Siberia is on fire.

Prove me wrong. Common .. link to a source that actually says otherwise and you will link to an opinion piece, a conspiracy theory, a lone voice of a scientist that has no support among others studying the same issue, or a blatant lie. Try me. Show me these other scientists that disagree.
 

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Zana, love you like a brother man, but do hear me out.

Watch the video below, which showcases a special guest worth listening too, at the International Conference on Climate Change. It is mentioned that there were over 31K PHD scientists who signed an agreement that there is absolutely no conclusive proof that humans have caused CO2 to increase, and yet there is so much proof that atmospheric CO2 benefits life on earth. Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiPIvH49X-E

Another great discussion disproving the CO2 alarmist theory is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDWEjSDYfxc


So Zana, these are not fringe extremists with a political bias, but rather well renowed climatologists with unrivaled credentials backing claims by a massive community.

So, my only point here is not to debate who has the bigger cheer leading squad, but rather for honest discussion about why each side completely discounts the other side, just as you have done or assumed. Why does it have to be the deniar or alarmist camp for some, as justiification for not listening more. What about logical thinking and reason, somewhere in between, all while methodically learning all we can as we push toward a cleaner future.......instead of going balls to the wall idiot mode, drastically changing our lifestyles based on questionable models, at an alarmist pace.

I would love to hear you thoughts on both videos, they are not that long and well worth your time.

Igor,
here is a start........but I already know you won't bother to respond. That's what alarmists do, they get presented with realt facts, and ignore it.
 

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Zana,
below is another great discussion on GCC, and if you just scrub forward to the 15:30 mark, they begin the conversation of CO2. Both men disagree with the CO2 alarmist BS that 400ppm is some tipping point that we would not survive in. He states that if you walk into a rain forrest, today, levels exceed 600ppm. The many charts you see that show CO2 at it's highest level in the last 400K years, is BS, because prior to that, which they conveniently cherry pick, levels were 10X higher than they are today, during the most prosperous periods for life Earth. That gets ignored, for obvious reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJwayalLpYY&t=1677s
another one for you Igor,

and again, no worries, I already know you will not watch the video or reply.
 

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Igor,
Your comparing the majority of scientists who deny alarmists to flat-earthers…..is a joke. And your asking for links as proof….is a joke too I hope. But I know better. Alarmists, like you, refuse to discuss the topic, therefore you are ignorant of the topic, unwilling to learn. Shame
There is a limitless list of sites refuting the alarmist’s and their political and economic driven agenda. I pasted a few below for you, but I already know you won’t bother to go to them, but you asked, so here you go…….
Recent news debunked:
https://www.thegwpf.com/ignore-climate-hysteria-world-grain-crop-set-to-break-record/


https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/08/01/greenland-ice-sheet-meltdown-scare-except-its-not-true/

https://www.scienceunderattack.com/blog/2019/7/29/no-evidence-that-climate-change-causes-weather-extremes-4-tornadoes-31

http://co2coalition.org/2019/08/01/despite-what-democrats-said-at-their-debate-were-not-heading-toward-climate-apocalypse/
 

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Igor,
Your comparing the majority of scientists who deny alarmists to flat-earthers…..is a joke. And your asking for links as proof….is a joke too I hope. But I know better. Alarmists, like you, refuse to discuss the topic, therefore you are ignorant of the topic, unwilling to learn. Shame
There is a limitless list of sites refuting the alarmist’s and their political and economic driven agenda. I pasted a few below for you, but I already know you won’t bother to go to them, but you asked, so here you go…….
Recent news debunked:
https://www.thegwpf.com/ignore-climate-hysteria-world-grain-crop-set-to-break-record/


https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/08/01/greenland-ice-sheet-meltdown-scare-except-its-not-true/

https://www.scienceunderattack.com/blog/2019/7/29/no-evidence-that-climate-change-causes-weather-extremes-4-tornadoes-31

http://co2coalition.org/2019/08/01/despite-what-democrats-said-at-their-debate-were-not-heading-toward-climate-apocalypse/
So you disagree with 99% of scientists including the IPCC based on a bunch of politically leaning blogs. LOL Flat Earther level of disinformation and disillusionment indeed.
 

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So you disagree with 99% of scientists including the IPCC based on a bunch of politically leaning blogs. LOL Flat Earther level of disinformation and disillusionment indeed.
There is not 99% that agree on anything.

There is in fact 31K scienctists who literally signed an agreement that disputes the IPCC, mentioned in those links above. But as stated, you want to remain ignorant by not learning or reading the facts, and you certainly don't want to discuss. Shame
 

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From the snopes link:
The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,157 MS; 2,586 MD and DVM; and 12,715 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.

The fact that not all were PHD's, does not allow snopes or anyone to conclude the claim is "mostly false" or to continue discounting their theories and results. That is a significant amount of advanced degrees in the scientific community who simply don't agree.

Science fact should not be a popularity contest about who has more on their side. Based on minimal data questionable math models, etc. nobody should draw any conclusions, until the scientific community is in 100% agreement. But that will never happen, if one side has decided they know enough to justify a radical path that they want to charge forward on.....rather than learn more.
 

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https://jalopnik.com/fords-finally-getting-serious-about-electric-vehicles-1837833485

From link:

After years of heavy investment and one forgettable attempt, Ford Motor Co. has yet to deliver a serious battery-electric vehicle.

That will change in 2020 with the introduction of Ford’s first long-range EV, a Mustang-inspired crossover expected to be called Mach E. That will be followed as soon as a year later by a full-electric F-150, with two midsize EV crossovers on tap for late 2022.

And still two more are expected in the same period.Ford may have ceded the early days of the EV craze to the likes of Tesla, Nissan and General Motors, but executives say Ford didn’t miss much, considering the low demand and even lower margins today’s EVs command. And having that time to see what works and what doesn’t, Ford now believes it has solved the problem that has vexed manufacturers for a decade: how to make EVs that are popular and profitable.
 

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Is Mach E using the Rivian skateboard? Does anyone know? If so then it's going to be more popular than Mustang and definitely worthy of being called Mach 1.



Yes, Wings, that's the Ford philosophy we all should be used to by now; conservative, calculated, accessible, and the best bang for your buck.
 

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Is Mach E using the Rivian skateboard? Does anyone know? If so then it's going to be more popular than Mustang and definitely worthy of being called Mach 1.



Yes, Wings, that's the Ford philosophy we all should be used to by now; conservative, calculated, accessible, and the best bang for your buck.
Not using RIvian. How about we wait to see what Ford has planned before we compare. Rivian has something Ford can use, but honestly, they are like a 6 year old with a head start, or at best, a good idea, compared to the vast experience Ford has, and that includes electrification and many miles of use cycles to derive data from. One off skateboard concepts with big batteries, does not an expert make.
 

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Is Mach E using the Rivian skateboard? Does anyone know? If so then it's going to be more popular than Mustang and definitely worthy of being called Mach 1.



Yes, Wings, that's the Ford philosophy we all should be used to by now; conservative, calculated, accessible, and the best bang for your buck.



This idea is rounding me for a while. The Mustang is not going to be redesign on the new RWD platform... the cars are killed across the Ford/Lincoln line up... the first EV from Ford is an EV performance crossover "inspired" by the Mustang. Is Ford preparing to replace the current Mustang coupe with this electric crossover in the near future?
 

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Is Mach E using the Rivian skateboard? Does anyone know? If so then it's going to be more popular than Mustang and definitely worthy of being called Mach 1.



Yes, Wings, that's the Ford philosophy we all should be used to by now; conservative, calculated, accessible, and the best bang for your buck.
Mach E has nothing to do with Rivian.

And furthermore, why would it being on a Rivian platform suddenly make it more popular than Mustang and ok to be called Mach 1?
 
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