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Re: "Zord/Fortye" Announce $4.5?Billion?Investment in “Electrified” Vehicles by 2025

wasn't sure whether to use this thread or make a snide comment about
"Leading in CHINESE Electrification" in the other thread...
...but I want to know if Fomoco's $4.5BILLION is partly invested over there?


Ford, China's Zotye Auto plan joint venture to build EVs
Autoblog/Reuters
- Brenda Goh - Aug 22nd 2017

SHANGHAI — Ford has plans for a joint venture with Chinese firm Anhui Zotye Automobile to build electric vehicles in China under a new brand, tapping into a boom for EVs in the world's top auto market.

China, struggling with alarming pollution levels in major cities, is aggressively pushing plug-in vehicles and has poured in tens of billions in investment, research funding and subsidies, drawing many new automakers to launch projects.

Tesla, Daimler AG and General Motors are among firms that have already announced plans for making electric vehicles in China, which wants electric and plug-in hybrid cars to make up at least a fifth of the country's auto sales by 2025.

Ford, whose overall China sales are down 7 percent this year, said in a statement on Tuesday that it had signed a memorandum of understanding with Zotye Auto to build a new brand under which the electric vehicles will be sold. Both firms will hold a 50-50 stake in the JV, it said.

It did not provide details of financial commitments nor say by when it will take a firm decision on the JV.

Ford sees China as the fastest-growing market in the world for new energy vehicles (NEV) and forecasts that segment to grow to 6 million vehicles per year by 2025, of which approximately 4 million would be all-electric.

The potential JV with Zotye Auto would represent a deepening of commitment to electric vehicles in China by Ford. In April, it outlined plans to offer by 2025 hybrid or fully electric versions of all models built in China with its domestic joint venture partner, Chongqing Changan Automobile.

However, it also said at the time that it would take a cautious approach to the market due to uncertainty about consumer interest and government policy.

Zotye, which Ford described as the market leader in China's all-electric small vehicle segment, sold more than 16,000 all-electric vehicles this year through July, representing a year-on-year growth of 56 percent, it said.

The privately-owned company, which is headquartered in China's coastal Zhejiang province, also makes sport utility vehicles and cargo trucks. On Monday, it reported a near six-fold jump in first-half profits.

Ford said it would release details about the brand, products and production volumes at a later date, pending a final agreement and regulatory approvals.
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Now I remember where I heard about Zotye before....

While China's Zotye has made a (bad) name for itself in Western press for ripping off designs like its Porsche Macan (SR8), Lambo Urus Concept and Audi Q3 clones, they also produce more original cars like the E200, a two-seater EV. http://www.carscoops.com/2017/09/zotye-e200-electric-mini-car-spotted-on.html

And this is who Ford decided to get in bed with?? They alrady got caught cheating 3 times.
 

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GKN Driveline has previewed an advanced all-electric axle concept it will debut at the Frankfurt Motor Show.

The British company, which provides Jeep with drivelines, has dubbed its concept ‘eTwinsterX’ and claims it has more capabilities than any other electrified driveline on the market.

For starters, eTwinsterX is adaptable to front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles and could be used for anything from affordable electric city cars through to electric all-wheel drive hypercars.
http://www.carscoops.com/2017/09/gkn-driveline-previews-electric-axle.html

Hummmmmm.......GKN and Ford created the Twinster Performance AWD system for the current Focus RS. Could this be what Ford's new drivetrain for it's first EVs will be based on? And I do remember the Ford engineer in an interview talking about electric drivetrains needing a 2 or 3-speed transmission. Ford does need a partner for electric drivetrains, like they did for the new 8 and 10-speed transmissions with GM. And Ford already has a 'relationship' with GKN. Just sayin....:wink2:
 

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“The new eTwinsterX axle is a combination of GKN Driveline technologies that will deliver unrivaled capabilities for the next generation of electric vehicles. It takes multiple award-winning elements from our driveline portfolio and applies the principles in a single state-of- the-art electrified system. Furthermore, our capability as a complete systems integration partner will allow us to calibrate this eAxle to deliver fully brand-aligned experiences for our OEM customers.”

still.....just sayin...:wink2:
 

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Mercury C557
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don't those^wheels look like the Lincoln C-Concept's?
:thumb: now put the e-axle in back and a small EcoBoost up front
with ONLY wires connecting front & back
= Plug-In with VirtualAWD... can use either or both for power as needed
then
use e-drives for both F & R
= pure BEV to take on Tesla

:grin2: ...LINCOLN: Reach Higher
 

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Vacuum Giant Dyson Is Building An Electric Car
By Brad Anderson
Sep 27, 2017 at 1:09 am
http://www.carscoops.com/2017/09/vacuum-giant-dyson-is-building-electric.html

In news you probably never expected to read, Dyson, the world-famous manufacturer of vacuum cleaners, has just announced that it is building an electric car.

Company founder James Dyson revealed the news in a letter addressed to the company’s staff, saying that the EV will be launched by 2020.

“Rather than filtering emissions at the exhaust pipe, today we have the ability to solve it at the source. So I wanted you to hear it directly from me: Dyson has begun work on a battery electric vehicle, due to be launched by 2020,” Dyson’s letter read
 

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California Considers Banning ICE Vehicles
By Brad Anderson
Sep 27, 2017 at 7:59 am
http://www.carscoops.com/2017/09/california-considers-banning-ice.html

Officials in California are considering a ban on internal combustion engine vehicles in a move which could mimic what select countries around the world have already announced.

During an interview late last week, chairman of the California Air Resources Board Mary Nichols said that California Governor Jerry Brown has recently expressed an interest in banning the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles in the future, Automotive News reports.

“I've gotten messages from the governor asking, 'Why haven't we done something already? The governor has certainly indicated an interest in why China can do this and not California,” Nichols said.
 

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"China is joining the UK, France, and Norway in banning vehicles powered by fossil fuels."

"German chancellor Angela Merkel has suggested that Germany may follow its European neighbors on the fossil-fuel vehicle ban."

"India has tentative phase-out plans. If the government does issue a mandate, it will have a major impact on the nation that’s expected to soon surpass China in population and that has been seeing new vehicle sales grow in recent years

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-ban-gas-powered-cars-effect-on-oil-market-2017-9

Big oil is about to become small oil in a matter of years, with the next 5 - 10 years being the most impactful as EVs spread across the globe.
 

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Ford's EV strategy is built around targeting their typical customers with EV drivetrains. Not only is it much cheaper to develop and sell with far smaller batteries, they can sell in greater overall numbers and with greater customer diversity. Customer adoption is easier, especially among Ford's aging clientele, if electrification is something that just happens naturally (PHEV/Hybrids) instead of appearing in an overtly purpose-built EV. Ford still has plenty of time to enter the market with something that might standout, but we have to be practical considering the small budget they are working with for the number of cars that are falling under that umbrella.

In any case, Ford's path toward electrification is going to be gradual and mostly just a bit of catch-up.

The other problem is that Ford faces wildly different automotive climates in the US and the rest of the world so they have to find a way to satisfy the demand for EVs in the rest of the world with the limited interest in the US. It's very difficult to have your foot in two wildly different economic climates and maintain globalization.
 

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Mercury C557
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...if electrification is something that just happens naturally (PHEV/Hybrids) instead of appearing in an overtly purpose-built EV...
...considering the small budget they are working with for the number of cars that are falling under that umbrella.

In any case, Ford's path toward electrification is going to be gradual and mostly just a bit of catch-up.
...It's very difficult to have your foot in two wildly different economic climates and maintain globalization.
a few imhos

it's a Lot easier to turn a "strong-e" Plug-In into a pure-BEV
-- significant space for batteries is needed for both
-- & the engine+fueltank removal provides space for more kWh for the BEV

the above dictates a non-smooth non-gradual escalation
-- ordinary hybrids are fine/ok with old platforms (under 2kWh)
-- a jump (new platform/architecture) is needed for both plug-ins and pure-BEVS

imho, we're already PAST the time for that jump
:toetap:
 

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In any case, Ford's path toward electrification is going to be gradual and mostly just a bit of catch-up.

The other problem is that Ford faces wildly different automotive climates in the US and the rest of the world so they have to find a way to satisfy the demand for EVs in the rest of the world with the limited interest in the US. It's very difficult to have your foot in two wildly different economic climates and maintain globalization.
I think the perception of a low interest in EVs in the US is tied to repeated media comments of the same. When the opposite is actually the case. Today we only have about 10 EVs for sale in the US, with the majority being retrofits from ICE vehicles with short sub 200-mile range, which makes them less desirable. But when we look at the few 200+ mile EVs finally for sale in the US, and in their segments, Model S leads the luxury/premium larger car segment, with Model 3 in the process of filling over 300k order in the US alone. Others like Bolt which is purposely built on the slowest selling sub-compact body designed to deter sales. New Leaf at 150+ miles and longer range 200+ mile model will boost its sales, but it's still a compact car. It is the luxury and premium automakers, that have invested in battery factories that can handle the sales volume, that will finally deliver the 200+mile EVs in body styles that consumers already buy in larger numbers.

EV sales in other countries are higher now because the small sub-compact, compact wagon/hatch body styles that are being offered are what sell best in those countries. Tesla has already proven that when the EV offers the range 200+ miles and the desired body/packaging, consumers will buy. Ford knows this, and they are doing the same as GM who has no battery factory in the US either, so an EV with the lowest desirability body for the US will be what they offer as well while putting a hybrid drivetrain in the more desirable, higher selling compact and midsize models to maintain dealer service/maintenance revenue.

So Tesla has already disqualified the 'low demand' concept for 200+ mile EVs in the US, the issue now is just production volume and enough options for consumers to choose the EV they want to drive. But they are coming as the imports lead the way. Very much how they lead the compact car segment in the US when US car makers were still making giant sedans and huge trucks...and the American companies never caught up in that segment. And unfortunately the same seems to be happening with the transition to EVs. But Tesla will continue to lead the way in the US.
 

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The US market for Hybrids/PHEVs has shrunken because of low energy costs and Tesla are now more fashionable than Prius which is not a demand every automaker can successfully replicate. Nobody was able to replicate the success of Prius and the same is still true of Tesla when it comes to EVs. It will be nearly impossible for Ford to challenge anybody on flagship EVs, this is a business for fashion forward premium companies instead of Ford which is geared toward very price sensitive shoppers who mostly see their cars as appliances instead of statements. They have to justify their existence in ever way, especially on price. The mass market EV isn't really significant in the US because the technology isn't affordable and the energy prices + range anxiety don't make it worthwhile. Which is why Ford really only cares about boring old hybrids.

Ford is still one of many other automakers in the exact same boat, they can't sell Teslas so they have to work out the technology so they can build it into their mass markets. And like everybody else, they should be covering on it at roughly the same point because of regulations and market forces. The good news for EV fans is that GM and Ford are global companies with no choice in the matter. The bad news is that Ford is well behind just about everybody, especially VW, when it comes to all the technologies and platforms needed to make this work at a global scale. But assuming their technology is right when it lands then it should catch up quickly and they can study their competition in the interim.

And with so little diversity in EVs, it's possible Ford will have some breakthrough EV product that sets the benchmark like Explorer or Taurus did back in the day. The thing that troubles Ford right now is that they simply follow, sometimes from an incredible distance, it's been a long time since they've been out in-front of anything.
 

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And with so little diversity in EVs, it's possible Ford will have some breakthrough EV product that sets the benchmark like Explorer or Taurus did back in the day. The thing that troubles Ford right now is that they simply follow, sometimes from an incredible distance, it's been a long time since they've been out in-front of anything.

2 years ago, only 2 years, Ford launched the first all aluminum full size Pick Up truck... Ford is in-front of truck innovation, is playing the leading role. No other truck is as advanced as the F-series.
Of course, your statment is not accurate.
 

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In news you probably never expected to read, Dyson, the world-famous manufacturer of vacuum cleaners, has just announced that it is building an electric car.
So, it will be overpriced and really suck!
 

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Ford only follows?
WTF!!!

Not true at all.
Aluminum trucks and SUV’s
Luxury SUV’s
Luxury Trucks
Early leader in hybrid and PHEV cars and SUV’s
An EV before most
GTDI across the board
Bronco return
AWD across most of their lineup
An entire performance brand with high flying trucks, CF super cars and 800hp Mustangs
A possible EV brand on the horizon with 13 new electrified vehicles coming
Parallel and perpendicular park assist across their lineup

I could do this freaking day.
LMAO at “only follows”
 

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Ford only follows?
WTF!!!

Not true at all.
Aluminum trucks and SUV’s
Luxury SUV’s
Luxury Trucks
Early leader in hybrid and PHEV cars and SUV’s
An EV before most
GTDI across the board
Bronco return
AWD across most of their lineup
An entire performance brand with high flying trucks, CF super cars and 800hp Mustangs
A possible EV brand on the horizon with 13 new electrified vehicles coming
Parallel and perpendicular park assist across their lineup

I could do this freaking day.
LMAO at “only follows”
You just proved my point. Bronco is a decades late response to Wrangler, Ranger is a response to GM and Toyota, PHEV is a response to Volt, GTDI is a response to VW, Escape is a response to Japan, Fusion is a response to Everybody else, MKX is a response to RX, Expedition is a response to Tahoe, Expedition Max is a response to Suburban, Edge is a response to Murano, New Explorer is a response to Lambdas, Old Explorer response to GM and Jeep, The modern Mustang with an IRS is a response to Camaro, DCT was a response to VW, EcoSport is a response to et.al, 360 Degree cameras were a response to Nissan/Lexus and so on...and that's before we talk about design like the Aston Martin grilles and the Ranger Rover Explorer or their mediocre IIHS rankings.

Even the F-150 Diesel and Hybrids are a follow-up to GM and FCA. Remember that the 2019 Chevy and Rams are also Hybrids and arriving well before. And GM pioneered the luxury truck with the Denali in 2002, over a decade before Ford would try something similar. The Navigator deserves some credit however, it was the last time Ford would create a new segment....but they also lost it to GM. Ford's Super Duty trucks and Transit Van are also the most recent examples of Ford getting out ahead but they have stayed there.

Ford does earn some leadership points in the F-Series because of Aluminum and AWD midsize sedans (a response to Subaru). And beyond that you have to go to ancient history like the first Mustang or Taurus, and maybe the Lincoln 60's Continental.

Ford briefly had a leadership position with features such autonomous parking, capless fuel doors, Sync voice activation + touch interface, LCD Instrument Panel, and kick-to-open lift gates...although some of this was top-down tech from the Germans, it was still leadership for their segments. But that Ford is completely gone once Mullally left and Ford is operating in its 2011 time capsule to this day.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all, Ford still has a very well rounded approach by taking the best from others and stuffing their range full of it as fast as any automaker. But Ford certainly doesn't pave the way for any of this, especially when it comes to entering new segments. They study the trends that are important to them and implement those that are less important once they have a clear perspective. They move slowly and conservatively, especially now, but they generally arrive when they absolutely have to and are also working on it even if they are years or decades late.
 

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You just proved my point. Bronco is a decades late response to Wrangler, Ranger is a response to GM and Toyota, PHEV is a response to Volt, GTDI is a response to VW, Escape is a response to Japan, Fusion is a response to Everybody else, MKX is a response to RX, Expedition is a response to Tahoe, Expedition Max is a response to Suburban, Edge is a response to Murano, New Explorer is a response to Lambdas, Old Explorer response to GM and Jeep, The modern Mustang with an IRS is a response to Camaro, DCT was a response to VW, EcoSport is a response to et.al, 360 Degree cameras were a response to Nissan/Lexus and so on...and that's before we talk about design like the Aston Martin grilles and the Ranger Rover Explorer or their mediocre IIHS rankings.

Even the F-150 Diesel and Hybrids are a follow-up to GM and FCA. Remember that the 2019 Chevy and Rams are also Hybrids and arriving well before. And GM pioneered the luxury truck with the Denali in 2002, over a decade before Ford would try something similar. The Navigator deserves some credit however, it was the last time Ford would create a new segment....but they also lost it to GM. Ford's Super Duty trucks and Transit Van are also the most recent examples of Ford getting out ahead but they have stayed there.

Ford does earn some leadership points in the F-Series because of Aluminum and AWD midsize sedans (a response to Subaru). And beyond that you have to go to ancient history like the first Mustang or Taurus, and maybe the Lincoln 60's Continental.

Ford briefly had a leadership position with features such autonomous parking, capless fuel doors, Sync voice activation + touch interface, LCD Instrument Panel, and kick-to-open lift gates...although some of this was top-down tech from the Germans, it was still leadership for their segments. But that Ford is completely gone once Mullally left and Ford is operating in its 2011 time capsule to this day.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all, Ford still has a very well rounded approach by taking the best from others and stuffing their range full of it as fast as any automaker. But Ford certainly doesn't pave the way for any of this, especially when it comes to entering new segments. They study the trends that are important to them and implement those that are less important once they have a clear perspective. They move slowly and conservatively, especially now, but they generally arrive when they absolutely have to and are also working on it even if they are years or decades late.

Cut the BS please, your complete inability to give Ford an ounce of credit is over the top. Even when you do find a positive, you wipe that out with 3 negatives.

It is simply not Fair to make yet another sweeping negative statement about Ford, that they "only follow" and then try to detail your excuse list by comparing one brand to all the innovation from the entire Fracking industry. How freaking unfair is that I ask??????????? How about picking 1 single other brand, and then lets compare apples to apples through the decades. Ford is right up there with some of the best.
 
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