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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Ed753 you beat me to it.

The best news for me is that Lincoln surpassed the 100k barrier with 101,277 sales for 2015. Congratulations to Lincoln!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even with the slow start, the F150 is a beast,
2015 had Lincoln at 101,277(Canada adds another 7,088) and best sales since 2008 at 107,295, pushing Lincoln into the third tier(100k - 200k) of luxury sales.

Right behind Infiniti at 133,498, Cadillac at 175,267(less than 2k units to outsell Acura), Acura at 177,165 all in the third tier of sales of luxury automobiles in the US.

Audi at 202,202 starts second tier.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

nice to see that Lincoln sold more than 100k!
Although 24k MKC´s is not good IMO.
The new MKX is down for the year (I know that there is some supply problems when the models change into a newer model but this seems to happen only with Lincoln!)
MKC sales will increase when Lincoln does a refresh to add some 'youth' into the vehicle. New grill and clean up the lines(that clam shell hatch kills the profile), along with a performance/drivers variant. Clearly Lincoln can see that this size luxury SUV targets the younger, sub 40 consumer that want to really drive it, not sleep in it.

For MKX, a FWD/AWD/Energi Hybrid option is what's necessary to gain market share in the largest auto market in the US.....California.

For MKZ, the refresh will give sales a boost, the hybrid gets it in the door, but today, consumers are looking for a plug. It's just stupid that there is no MKZ Energi model for the Lincoln luxury consumer, that should have happened 3 years ago.

Navigator sales are flattening out, but still better it has been for years. With Continental for 2016, New Navigator should be for 2017.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Actually you said 10k/month by August/15. That didn't happen. You're not great at predictions are ya?😛

But Wings, I wanted to ask if you know the reasons for Lincoln killing LS way back in the 2000's? It was a good seller from all accounts. I still like looking at them.
In this thread I had mentioned I predicted they would hit it in 2015.
Anyway, August was on 2015.

And the LS, well, no comment.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

A new MKC is on the calendar for 2018 so a refresh seems unlikely unless they intend to stay on the old Escape platform when the new Escape launches in 2018...which also seems unlikely since it would be a lesser car than the cheaper/newer Ford. MKC is moving to a new plant which is likely the next gen Focus/Hybrid plant upon which both the next-gen Escape and MKC will be based. Generally you don't move a car at the end of it's lifecycle unless you have an all-new product coming online.

MKC sales are definitely disappointing considering it's roughly half the 40K MKCs the plant can build, and China is only buying about 500 a month right now. That may change over the next few years but it looks like MKC sales are shrinking instead of growing. MKX is doing very well now that it looks like they've improved lease pricing at the end of the year. MKX had a slow launch with very little product for more than half the year, it's not surprising sales are down significantly for the year. I'm not sure at what point Lincoln solves it's dysfunctional manufacturing relationship with Ford plants but it seems to be acceptable for their business to put products on hiatus and coast on inventory until they can ramp up production again. With MKC moving to a new plant this may change for at least one vehicle, in addition to Continental which is no longer tied to the Ford Taurus. We shouldn't see too many delays for the rest of the decade with only MCEs and new nameplates coming online. The only Ford vs Lincoln launch delay we may see again soon is with the next-gen Navigator.

As for the Lincoln LS, they lost money on every sale, substantial sums of money. It was also tied to a plant they wanted to empty. I don't think people remember how much money Lincoln use to throw at its cars to sell them, HUGE incentives. I lease a loaded Lincoln LS for less than half the price of my current Lincoln.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

2015 had Lincoln at 101,277(Canada adds another 7,088) and best sales since 2008 at 107,295, pushing Lincoln into the third tier(100k - 200k) of luxury sales.

Right behind Infiniti at 133,498, Cadillac at 175,267(less than 2k units to outsell Acura), Acura at 177,165 all in the third tier of sales of luxury automobiles in the US.

Audi at 202,202 starts second tier.
Cadillac barely outsold Audi and substantially outsold Acura in December. It will be interesting to see if this will become a trend (I hope so!) or if this was just a lucky month for Caddy.

The real news to me is how much longer do we have until Volvo passes Lincoln? They are on fire, it's ridiculous!
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Among the positive is one depressing statistic, Ford is once again the number three company in US sales with Toyota coming out slightly ahead for the year. It really bothers me seeing a foreign brand be so successful here.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

I wanted to add on the MKC- I have no idea if this is the case nationwide and this is a very small sample size, but I had a theory on the disappointing sales. Most MKCs my dealers keep in stock have been loaded up, $50k MKCs sitting next to $45k 2014/5 MKXs before and now $55k-$60k 2016 MKXs. I think it's been a tough sale sitting next to the MKX which offers more room for the similar price. Sales would go up if they kept more "basic" $35k FWD MKCs in stock I'm sure (but is that what Lincoln would want?).
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

I wanted to add on the MKC- I have no idea if this is the case nationwide and this is a very small sample size, but I had a theory on the disappointing sales. Most MKCs my dealers keep in stock have been loaded up, $50k MKCs sitting next to $45k 2014/5 MKXs before and now $55k-$60k 2016 MKXs. I think it's been a tough sale sitting next to the MKX which offers more room for the similar price. Sales would go up if they kept more "basic" $35k FWD MKCs in stock I'm sure (but is that what Lincoln would want?).
It could be a regional thing. Checking here, I see 16 MKC models at one dealership and 10 are the base sub $40k Select model.

MKC design did not translate cleanly from concept to production.

This is beautiful....


This is what we got....


If an 'early' mid cycle MY2017/18 refresh comes to fix the rear(new exhaust like with the 2017 MKZ) reduce the black cladding around the wheels and reduce at rear, along with new Lincoln grille and a drivers package.

With Escape getting a refresh for MY2017, it means a new model is out to MY2019 at best. With new MKC coming MY2020.

I just think the MKC needs to get back to the sleek, sexy the concept offered. Like MKX did and Continental will do.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

I don't think there is anything wrong with the MKC design, it's quite appealing and unique, even though it doesn't look as good as the concept (like all cars). Lincoln has a really hard time selling cars to new customers and the MKC requires new Lincoln customers.

To me, the MKC is just a bad Lincoln, I'd much rather have a Ford Edge than a cramped, claustrophobic, and buzzy MKC...after driving one I quickly elected to wait on the new Edge and MKX. But it works for other luxury marques. The MKC is just a bad value and when you're leasing stuff, the MKX makes much more sense. It's a car Lincoln should have in its portfolio but they will have to continue to iterate upon to gain traction. Ultimately Lincoln probably needs to fill out its top and come back to the low-end once they have some brand stability that makes their cheaper offerings a desirable choice for the fashion conscious shoppers that tend to buy these more attainable small and fun luxury segments.

As for Ford falling to 3rd place again, what's more remarkable is that Toyota can do that without a successful truck line in the US.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

It could be a regional thing. Checking here, I see 16 MKC models at one dealership and 10 are the base sub $40k Select model.

MKC design did not translate cleanly from concept to production.

This is beautiful....


This is what we got....


If an 'early' mid cycle MY2017/18 refresh comes to fix the rear(new exhaust like with the 2017 MKZ) reduce the black cladding around the wheels and reduce at rear, along with new Lincoln grille and a drivers package.

With Escape getting a refresh for MY2017, it means a new model is out to MY2019 at best. With new MKC coming MY2020.

I just think the MKC needs to get back to the sleek, sexy the concept offered. Like MKX did and Continental will do.
Black Label MKC production looks a bit closer, mostly due to similar large wheels.

 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

A new MKC is on the calendar for 2018 so a refresh seems unlikely unless they intend to stay on the old Escape platform when the new Escape launches in 2018...which also seems unlikely since it would be a lesser car than the cheaper/newer Ford. MKC is moving to a new plant which is likely the next gen Focus/Hybrid plant upon which both the next-gen Escape and MKC will be based. Generally you don't move a car at the end of it's lifecycle unless you have an all-new product coming online.

MKC sales are definitely disappointing considering it's roughly half the 40K MKCs the plant can build, and China is only buying about 500 a month right now. That may change over the next few years but it looks like MKC sales are shrinking instead of growing. MKX is doing very well now that it looks like they've improved lease pricing at the end of the year. MKX had a slow launch with very little product for more than half the year, it's not surprising sales are down significantly for the year. I'm not sure at what point Lincoln solves it's dysfunctional manufacturing relationship with Ford plants but it seems to be acceptable for their business to put products on hiatus and coast on inventory until they can ramp up production again. With MKC moving to a new plant this may change for at least one vehicle, in addition to Continental which is no longer tied to the Ford Taurus. We shouldn't see too many delays for the rest of the decade with only MCEs and new nameplates coming online. The only Ford vs Lincoln launch delay we may see again soon is with the next-gen Navigator.

As for the Lincoln LS, they lost money on every sale, substantial sums of money. It was also tied to a plant they wanted to empty. I don't think people remember how much money Lincoln use to throw at its cars to sell them, HUGE incentives. I lease a loaded Lincoln LS for less than half the price of my current Lincoln.
Thanks for your answer!
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

from the Other MFGs thread...
So Cadillac vs. Lincoln...............

Night and Day or Day and Night?

On one aspect Cadillac is 'killing' Lincoln, on the other it isn't.

Cadillac = 175,267

Lincoln = 101,227

But if you notice at Cadillac..................

:nerd:

Models that won't (or shouldn't) be there in a year; (ELR, SRX & XTS) = 92,986 (or 53%)

Then do the same thing at Lincoln.............

Models that won't (or shouldn't) be there in a year; (MKS, MKT ) = 11,573 (or 11%)

In Summary; Cadillac's sales are built on weakness (soon discontinued or obsolete models), where Lincoln's are built on strength (new/on-going models)
:thumb: LOVE your analysis, Ed!!

it got me to try prognosticating - not gonna post a guess-chart (yet) tho
figuring on partial years for the cy2016 Conti & mce'd Z
but thinking the Navi would get going sooner in cy2017;
kinda thinking BOTH years could produce around 17% increases
:joyous:
@Ed753
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Charts cause I love Charts!





To answer someone else's question last time Lincoln cracked 100k was 2008 7 years ago.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Among the positive is one depressing statistic, Ford is once again the number three company in US sales with Toyota coming out slightly ahead for the year. It really bothers me seeing a foreign brand be so successful here.

Ford beat Toyota/Scion in division sales, and FMC beat TMC in total sales,
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Ford beat Toyota/Scion in division sales, and FMC beat TMC in total sales,
Thanks Logans Run.
And although Toyota had a good run, it was not without Ford's slow first half start impacted by several large volume sellers lagging behind, like F150. Had Ford not seen truck volumes down so low for so long, they would have had a much larger gap between them.

I think 2016 will be much better, especially for Lincoln.
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Thanks Logans Run.
And although Toyota had a good run, it was not without Ford's slow first half start impacted by several large volume sellers lagging behind, like F150. Had Ford not seen truck volumes down so low for so long, they would have had a much larger gap between them.

I think 2016 will be much better, especially for Lincoln.
While I agree, it's pretty impressive that Toyota can hang with such low truck volume. Tundra is garbage. New Tacoma is nice though.

I do agree about 2016 being a VERY good year. I think the refreshed MKZ will push it over 4000 units for a few months here or there. Continental will certainly outsell MKS. MKX will gain a LOT of steam I believe, and MKC will probably bump a tiny bit due to MKX interest.

I'm predicting:
~37-40K units for MKZ (2015: 30,901; 2014: 34,009)
~28-30K units for MKC (2015: 24,590; 2014: 13,077)
~34-36K units for MKX (2015: 22,119; 2014: 23,995)
~12K for Navigator (2015: 11,964; 2014: 10,433) -if fuel prices stay low-
~Continental eventually doubles MKS sales and outsells Navigator in at least 3 months after availability steadies (2015 MKS: 6,877; 2014 MKS: 8,160)
~5K for MKT I guess, who cares

Total sales predictions:

Low side (somewhat realistic): 119,000 units sold
High side (hopeful): 128,000 units sold
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

I do see that GM actually outsold Ford with large trucks with 824k, Silverado/Sierra combined. But F-150 has been gaining sales momentum toward the end of year as parts/productions constraints eased. So if that keeps up, I expect F-150 to outsell both GM trucks for 2016.

GM continues to dominate with large SUVs. The New Expedition has to be exceptional. Going with a lightweight aluminum body, and the improved fuel economy that comes with that, will give both the Expedition and Navigator an immediate edge.

But I think it's time the SWB and LWB version of both the Expedition and Navigator got different names, which offers different identities targeting different customers. Like Tahoe and Suburban. Maybe Ford could bring back the Excursion name for the LWB version of the Expedition? Or maybe Navigator and Voyager (LWB). Not having an actual name for the two vehicles makes the LWB version seem insignificant.

Where Ford does have a lead is with Explorer, but need an Aviator for Lincoln. Wonder if next gen Explorer/Aviator will also go aluminum??
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

Ford beat Toyota/Scion in division sales, and FMC beat TMC in total sales,
I may need to wake up before I read numbers in the future. I was going by Autoblog's December for some reason and Toyota did top Ford in total sales, all brands considered for the month. Hope that doesn't become a trend!
 

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Re: Ford America’s Best-Selling Brand for 6th Straight Year F-Series #1 Vehicle for 3

^^ Bloggin, just-imho, Lincoln has only a couple/few EXCEPTIONAL Names...& the rest are poor
so
I don't want to bifurcate the "Navi" Tho if they can come up with a great "suffix" to replace the 'L', I'd like that
:thumb:

Charts cause I love Charts!
:thumb: :thumb: cuz me Too!
+ saving me the time of looking up older numbers than I already had :joyous:
+ SURPRISES** :yikes:= I really don't think I ever realized how bad some of those years were

...I do agree about 2016 being a VERY good year. I think the refreshed MKZ will push it over 4000 units for a few months here or there. Continental will certainly outsell MKS. MKX will gain a LOT of steam I believe, and MKC will probably bump a tiny bit due to MKX interest.

I'm predicting:
~37-40K units for MKZ
..(2015: 30,901; 2014: 34,009)
~28-30K units for MKC .(2015: 24,590; 2014: 13,077)
~34-36K units for MKX..(2015: 22,119; 2014: 23,995)
~12K for Navigator ..... (2015: 11,964; 2014: 10,433) -if fuel prices stay low-
~Continental eventually doubles MKS sales and outsells Navigator in at least 3 months after availability steadies .... (2015 MKS: 6,877; 2014 MKS: 8,160)
~5K for MKT I guess, who cares

Total sales predictions:

Low side (somewhat realistic): 119,000 units sold
High side (hopeful): 128,000 units sold
:thumb: some SPOOKY similarities to mine
tho I see the X surging ahead of the Z
& funny, at first I thought 2016 might Not be so good due to the Z (July?) and later, the Conti (Sept?), only getting partial YTDs
but the more I fiddled with my #s, the more 2017 & 2016 evened out... %-wise


** as we heard Mr.M. wanted to kill Lincoln after The Botch(2013), imho that also had the 'rationale' of 2013 2012 2011 number-losses!!
(tho also need to remember by then 2014's MKC was in the pipeline - - so glad they didn't pull another Mercury C557 (last minute cancellation) and SNATCH DEFEAT FROM THE JAWS OF VICTORY again
)

edit
thinking the triple losses of 2011-2013 JUST MIGHT have had something to do with No More MERCURY customers coming into the dealerships!! :facepalm:

re-edit
Anyone want explain the CRASH of 2009 2008?
not really awake today
.
 

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