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I fear for all Ford cars. All these high riding things being the talk of the town for me is totally boring. My only hope is that EU markets still love their wagons and hatches. Hopefully Fields doesn't impose his truck only mentality on the EU.
 

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I fear for all Ford cars. All these high riding things being the talk of the town for me is totally boring. My only hope is that EU markets still love their wagons and hatches. Hopefully Fields doesn't impose his truck only mentality on the EU.
There's no way he will it wouldn't make sense from a sales perspective. Fiesta and Focus still sell very well in EU.
 
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well, for China there's still the "Escort"... ... ...
afaik/just sayin'
:angel
Chinese Escort doesn't mean anything for markets outside China.

Our LHD Thai-built Fiestas have China-stamped bulkheads. Question is, if they stopped making Fiestas in China, will they stop sending Ford Thailand Left-hand drive bulkeads?
 

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Speaking of a changing Ford lineup, any updates on the proposed 20% border sales tax?
What will this mean for the future imported Ford small vehicles?
How will this affect the Indian-sourced 2018 US-market EcoSport?
 

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catching up on a thread elsewhere, something made me wonder if
having both an EcoSport and something else not too-diff in overall-size, based on the Focus/Escape architecture,
might give factory-flexibility ... just in case of any external uncertainties

tho dunno if utilization(s) support that thought
You mean what if they made the US-market EcoSport in the US? They'd have to have parts suppliers there too and should be able to maintain a certain volume of production.

Anyway, the US Focus is still moving to Mexico.
 

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^ nope, meant start by importing the EcoSport from wherever as long as they can
but at the SAME time, plan a (as small as possible overall) Escape-based C-/B+ thingie (while ngEscape grows a 'bit') to:
- take advantage of the CuvCraze
- take over if tariffs happen
+ kinda thinking of the EcoSport as old-gen & other-thingie as probassible nextgen (a bit like how I think of the U.S.Ranger as T7 while tRotW still has one last T6-mce)
the problem is there's only one U.S Escape factory for now & it's already at 100% afaik
...wondering if MAP might yet be reRE-imagined?...
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^ nope, meant start by importing the EcoSport from wherever as long as they can
but at the SAME time, plan a (as small as possible overall) Escape-based C-/B+ thingie (while ngEscape grows a 'bit') to:
- take advantage of the CuvCraze
- take over if tariffs happen
+ kinda thinking of the EcoSport as old-gen & other-thingie as probassible nextgen (a bit like how I think of the U.S.Ranger as T7 while tRotW still has one last T6-mce)
the problem is there's only one U.S Escape factory for now & it's already at 100% afaik
...wondering if MAP might yet be reRE-imagined?...
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Why do you think Ford would delay the next new Ranger for the RotW if the primary market for midsize pickups is outside North America? Perhaps this is the reason Ford Australia's T6 team was tasked to make an Americanized version of the Ranger and next Bronco.

If Ford will make another small CUV like a C-/B+ CUV, it will have to be a Global model because that's the only way any small vehicle will be profitable.
 

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thought I bumped this thread the other day or so ... oh well
Thanks to Andrew on AutoVerdict
maybe a start in a better place for non-MarkFields/non-Mr.Hatchet/future-lineup discussion?
Andrew_L said:
I think the all new Focus is supposed to be shown later this year
Ranger and Bronco are supposed to be 2018 and 2019 right?
Rumors of a Lincoln Aviator are around 2018/2019 which would mean a new Explorer too
2019 should be when the Fusion and MKZ get redone and on time if they survive the dying sedan market place
The Escape was refreshed in 2015 and is in need of an update but I think they are trying to line it up with the MKC which hasn't had a refresh and may skip one all together with a replacement.

I am sure there is more I am missing but I think the obvious suspects are:
1. Escape, killing the hybrid model was stupid IMO.
2. No MKZ Energi so Lincoln is falling behind on electrification
3. C-Max needs an update too
4. All the D cars... Flex, MKT, Taurus. Explorer needs it's update moved up as for the others either kill them or do SOMETHING with them.
- - - - - - -
crossreference (just a rendering):
 

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[Car Wars 2018-2021] released, but is it "fake-news"/LIES?...

...or just plain WRONG??
...NEVER had Any respect for Alisa Priddle anyway...as far as her reporting-job:

Lots of Vehicles, Especially Crossovers, on the Way Over Next Four Years
MotorTrend
- May 25, 2017


...according to Car Wars 2018-2021, an annual report on the future health of the U.S. auto industry by Bank of America Merrill Lynch Global Research...

...Ford’s upcoming products
Ford may be light on new products for the 2018 model year, as it’s replacing only 25 percent of its lineup, but it has a couple of aces up its sleeve with the 2018 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator. You could argue they should have come sooner to take advantage of the current SUV craze and lower fuel prices—Murphy said they could generate $1 billion—but coming later this year the two SUVs are still poised to challenge the stranglehold General Motors has had on the large SUV segment.

For 2019, look for a new Explorer and companion Lincoln Aviator, the EcoSport, Ranger, and Focus. Ford is expected to update its massively important F-150 in 2020 as well as launch a new Escape/Lincoln MKC, the Ford Fusion/Lincoln MKZ, the Bronco, and another crossover. The 2021 lineup should include the overdue electric crossover with a range of more than 200 miles, a Lincoln flagship sedan, Mustang coupe and convertible, and a coupe for Lincoln...

...Electric vehicle components are expensive
Everyone is working on electrification but it is still too costly. Murphy said components in a conventional vehicle cost almost $22,000 compared with about $35,600 for an electric car. “So the economics still don’t make sense,” he said, and until that extra $14,000 in cost comes down, electric vehicles will remain a single-digit percentage of the market. The math also raises questions about the ability of Tesla to make money on the Model 3.

Bank of America Merrill Lynch forecasts 17.9 million U.S. auto sales this year and then a trough about 2020 down to 14 million. Murphy warned this year could be lower because of a giant red flag: The number of vehicles coming off lease in 2017, 3.5 million, is at an all-time high. The industry is running about 30 percent lease penetration which is about 10 percent above normal. So the industry could start to deteriorate as early as this year if the tsunami of off-lease volumes hits shore this year instead of 2018. The glut of used vehicles will hit epic proportions in 2019 and 2020, Murphy said. He thinks automakers will try to keep incentives from spiraling out of control by cutting back on production.

“This is a real big problem that we need to watch,” he said. If the industry can’t absorb the 3.5 million vehicles coming off lease this year, it could hit a sales trough as early as 2021. Leasing has helped the industry sell more crossovers and profitable trucks, but in the future consumers might not be able to afford higher prices. Gas prices and raw material costs will also creep back up, affecting affordability...

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Toyota, GM have best chance to gain market share
The Detroit News
| Melissa Burden | May 25, 2017 | Updated


...John Murphy, senior auto analyst for Bank of America Merrill Lynch Global Research, on Thursday told the Automotive Press Association in Detroit...
...Murphy expects Ford and Honda Motor Co. Ltd. to see flat market share in 2020 vs. 2016, while Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV; Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and the Korean and European automakers would lose share...

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Discussion Starter #52
"Murphy said components in a conventional vehicle cost almost $22,000 compared with about $35,600 for an electric car. "

Not sure where 'Murphy' is getting those numbers from which are both on the high side. For example, a Focus sedan starts at $18k for the whole car. and the 200+ mile Model 3 at $35k will be profitable. My guess is his numbers are pulled from old data. GM has already stated the Volt and $37k Bolt are profitable for them.

"“We know the customers would like to drive electric cars but are unwilling to pay any more for them. That’s why we’re going to be the first company to sell electric vehicles that people can afford at a profit.”"
 

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I seriously doubt the Bolt or Volt is profitable for GM. Not by a Detroit mile. Heck, the Focus shared platform EV sells at a loss.

Tesla 3 average price was predicted to be about $50K, and yet Tesla is still not expected to profit with the 3, as the numbers just don't add up.

https://electrek.co/2017/04/06/tesla-model-3-average-sale-price-data/


It's a bit strange to me that marketing today is far more important than the actual product. Up til now, product sold itself. Today we have post-millennials who literally are completely lacking in the ability to care about what defines a good vehicle, and instead only care about the marketed optics of ownership. Both my teens want a Tesla, the same way they wanted an iPhone. Trying to explain to them that a Model 3 literally costs twice what a Focus costs, is futile. They are convinced they are saving the planet. The well to wheel argument does not interest them in the slightest either.

So looking forward a bit, if gas prices stay where they are for a long time, then it will probably be a long time before EV sales rise above single digit percents. Especially with ICE's and hybrids gaining in efficiency. 300 mile EV's in the near future will be competing with newer 45-50 mpg compacts and 40mpg mid sized sedans, not what is sold today. Hybrids will be averaging (hwy and city) 50-60mpg. And this is in the very near term, couple years from now. So I am believe Ford is planning for a long term approach, not just a quick solution. We shall see.
 

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...it just seems to me that lately Ford has been focused so much on the distant future that in some respects, they have been losing a connection with the present...

...if we look at how Ford will be willing to pause replacing an aging model longer than expected, willing to risk market share, in order to wait years for a next generation platform, technology to be developed or new segment growth to happen.

Examples of this is Expedition, Navigator, Focus Electric, Energi models and the lack of an Energi model for Lincoln. All product updates that 'consumers' wanted years ago, but Ford did not deliver.
I wonder if there'll be any extra "sizzle" & when? ...can't really rush the actual steak that much; But...
1 - fercryin'outloud: MKZ-Energi 2.3Atkinson-or-1.5T ...even CARB(states)ONLY!
2 - MKX-Lg :facepalm: including a [BL] version :facepalm:² = R.I.P.M.K.T
3 - still wondering about taking a pair of Focus-BEV drivetrains & sticking them in Both the front & back of SOMEthing...
...daydreaming follows / ignore:
jack up a Z, stick a 2-3" thick battery surfboard under it, scrap a PanoRoof for a carbonfibre ceiling + a HATCH
= e-TOURING
that should be plenty thru next NAIAS

for Ford, just "leaking" the/a USFiesta** should do it since the Ranger can then be shown
( Oh! and give new grille inserts to the Fusion & whatever else )
edit
SON of Dave/Gillette


...chop

** maybe even a different, unrelated, phony, mock-up every month?
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Re: Ford lineup to change, but W.T.HECK??

note: B-Max production ended just last week in Craiova, Romania...
Ford Motor Company Files Trademark Application For ‘B-MAX’
FordAuthority
— by Alex Luft — Sep 3, 2017

Ford Motor Company has filed an application to register B-MAX as a trademark with the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), Ford Authority has discovered.

Filed on August 29th, 2017, the application is assigned serial number 87587776 and specifies that the mark will be used in conjunction with the following goods and services:

Land motor vehicles, namely, automobiles and their engines
Exterior insignia badges for vehicles
Vehicle rooftop carriers, namely, roof racks
Fitted motor vehicle covers
Bug shields for motor vehicles
Mud flaps for motor vehicles
Trailer hitch covers for motor vehicles
Automobile windshield sunshades and license plate frames for motor vehicles

The Ford Authority Take
Ford sells a subcompact people mover (MPV) called the B-MAX in various international markets such as Europe. Built on the same Ford global B platform as the Fiesta and EcoSport, the B-MAX is driven by the front wheels and features a sliding rear door and two rows of seating.

As such, this filing would suggest that Ford is planning to bring the B-MAX to the United States market to join the larger C-MAX. The move makes sense given The Blue Oval’s drive to globalize its lineup if not for the fact that the B-MAX is reportedly set to be discontinued later this year.

Stay tuned as we follow this topic. In the meantime, check out out Ford B-MAX news and other Ford news right here at Ford Authority.

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Discussion Starter #56
^.....makes me wonder if next-gen B-Max is going to be that new 'small' CUV Ford is set to offer by 2020. The subcompact Bolt wagon has a small 102.4 wheelbase for example.

Since both GM and Ford have not initiated battery plant manufacturing, it looks like both were planning an EV in the lowest selling segment in the US to minimize demand and show they are offering an EV at over 200 miles.




While Tesla who invested in a battery factory early on has already launched a mid-size (113.2-inch wheelbase Model 3....Ford Fusion is 112.2), at a lower entry price than Bolt with a massive consumer appeal.

 

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Since both GM and Ford have not initiated battery plant manufacturing, it looks like both were planning an EV in the lowest selling segment in the US to minimize demand and show they are offering an EV at over 200 miles.
This has been my line of thinking all along. It's either that or GM and Ford are the two dumbest companies on earth!

Am I wrong to view a CUV as a sort of imitation SUV? Every successful CUV to my eyes has a little truck in it's appearance and for anybody, especially GM, to suggest the Bolt is in any way a CUV is laughable. It's a slightly taller hatch, nothing more, and not even remotely exciting in appearance like many others.
 

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Ford and GM will be motivated far more and faster, when EV is profitable. Not a minute sooner.

So far, not happening.
They profit far too much in other segments to care more than just offering it to the small few who believe in them.


And here is the other side of the equation,
nobody is giving up on ICE. We are on the verge of huge incremental increases in ICE efficiency. And that carries into hybrids. I am not so sure we are anticipating the same increases in EV.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Ford and GM will be motivated far more and faster, when EV is profitable. Not a minute sooner.

So far, not happening.
They profit far too much in other segments to care more than just offering it to the small few who believe in them.

And here is the other side of the equation,
nobody is giving up on ICE. We are on the verge of huge incremental increases in ICE efficiency. And that carries into hybrids. I am not so sure we are anticipating the same increases in EV.
True....but the problem with waiting to develop/launch 'technology' is by the time you launch, the market has already surpassed your delivery. Battery and electric component pricing have come down so much now, that just like ICE vehicles, the profit is in the 'volume'. But if Ford and GM just launch EVs in the lowest volume segment, they will always have the 'profitability' excuse as to why they have not invested enough and early enough in battery manufacturing and electric drivetrain components. Based on the response from the Tesla Model 3, the consumer demand is there, but only if the product meets broad consumer expectations, however, if the manufacturer purposely offers a product in the slowest selling segment, they are guaranteeing that sales will be low.

As far as ICE efficiency, for a 200+ mile daily commuter car....it does not matter how little gas the ICE vehicle uses, it is the ZERO gas and 75% fewer maintenance costs and less than half the 'fuel/electricity' costs. That math works out for an EV over an ICE vehicle every time. That's why I think GM and Ford together are attempting to hold back EV adoption, simply because they did not prepare for it along with trying to keep consumers in ICE vehicles that offer more long term revenue for service and parts.

Over 500k Model 3 paid reservations already canceled out any doubt about EV adoption when the EV is offered in a package consumers want. The rise in EV sales percentage over PHEV points to consumers moving to a full EV when range and design meet expectations. Hybrid should become the 'norm' or what commonly expected for ICE.

Consumer progression looks something like this:

ICE > Hybrid > PHEV > EV or ICE > PHEV > EV or with younger buyers just EV

Those needing big trucks/SUVs will benefit from hybrid, but for the largest consumer segment....it will be the EV.
 

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Ford lineup to change, but how? ...the Return of the Please-Don't-Call-It-a-WAGON

'borrowing' from the Deutsche Bank Global Auto Industry Conference - DooDah - DooDah
ummm... All this mean that in the near future (2021-2023) Ford line up in NorthAmerica will be something like this:

EcoSport
Focus sedan
Escape
Mach 1
Bronco
Mustang
Edge
Explorer
Expedition
Ranger
F-Series

In Europe:

Ka+
Fiesta
EcoSport
Mach 1
Escape
Focus
Edge
S-Max/Galaxie ?
Mustang
Ranger
:thumb:
won't try Yurpland but for the DisUnited States ...by size as much as I can:

EcoSport & Fiesta-Active-HATCH(Focus-based)
Focus sedan & Focus-Active(semi-wagon-y?)
Escape*
Fusion-Active(Focus-based-stretched, maybe semi-wagon-y Only?)*
maybe Bronco(Troller-equivalent) or*
Mustang + Mach 1 **electrifried(maybe semi-wagon-y?)
Edge or* & Edge-3-row
maybe Bronco(Everest-equivalent) or*
maybe cD6 Thunderbird?
Explorer**
Ranger
Expedition*
F-Series**

** EVERY^thing gets electrifried, these are just the first 3
* guessing: next 4
 
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