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The way I see it, with Lincoln going 'Quiet Luxury' in design, that targets the 40+ segment.....the idea of a 'compact' SUV that targets the 30+, is where the problem is. Which is why the more youthful/sporty NX launched a year or so after the MKC sells so much better.

Interior of the MKC is nice for an older person. Exterior needs to be cleaned, streamlined, cleaner lines, less bulky/clumsy rear exhaust design. It will also needs a hint of sport.

The 40+ segment will be older and in the US....larger. Which is why the larger MKX is a better fit, and MKC sales will continue to diminish until Lincoln updates or complexly redesigns for the target market (30+)that is buying the compact CUVs.

So at this point, Lincoln really has nothing for the under 40 consumer that can compete successfully with the competition.
 

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I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with the MKC, it's still a compelling choice in this segment but much of this likely comes down to the toxicity of the brand among this segment's core customer. This is a nice step for Lincoln but it's probably silly for us to expect deeper market penetration for a brand that has such signifiant customer acceptance issues. It's the same problem at Caddy, Lincoln is competing in establish segments dominated by others so convincing those customers to consider the alternative is a tough task and it will take time and lots of product iterations and experimentation before we know if the brand is salvageable.
 

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the toxicity of the brand
has such signifiant customer acceptance issues
if the brand is salvageable

These seeming perpetual words that flow forth regarding Lincoln are in such stark contrast to the excitement I feel when viewing/learning of future products from the brand, as I have recently done....that I can only smile.
 

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3 years ago that corner would have been the MKZ, MKC, MKX...three years before that it would have been MKS and MKT... I can keep going back but suffice it to say that time never comes. The rest is just propaganda or lies so either give specifics or keep it quiet as apparently you're suppose to.
 

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Sorry man, Lincoln and Caddy are brands that deserve scrutiny and skepticism until they can produce results and finding success in either business always comes down "we'll get their soon and in the meantime they aren't spending much so sales don't matter". My tolerance for it as an end and anytime somebody tells me this is happening AGAIN I get irritated. I'm sure Lincoln is working on its next thing and it will be better than the thing before it, but that has always been the case.
 

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So just to be clear borg, you are irritated by Ford / Lincoln fans who up talk Ford / Lincoln products in what is primarily a Ford / Lincoln fan site.....and who just might be a bit excited due to all of the positive brand building going on.


And I bet you criticize because you care so deeply.
Right?
Give it a rest.
 

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The MKX is a very established product among Lincoln customers and probably their most important product from a profit perspective considering how well it sells next to the cheaper MKZ and MKC. For Lincoln's that have a built-in audience like Navigator and MKX, growth is fairly instantaneous as soon as you update them. I think the Continental will also be one of those since Lincoln's lost allot of ground in sedans and a fresh notable model should bring them back in. MKC is a new car that needs new customers to sell well which is a bigger struggle than I expected tbh.

BTW, MKC is Q5 sized, not Q3 sized...not sure why that comparison is being made. Audi sells substantially more Q5s than Q3s.

You also have to look at Caddy SRX which virtually doubles all of Lincoln's crossover sales combined. There is a huge customer base at Caddy for new Crossovers but that's not the case at Lincoln. Caddy is just much farther along on Crossovers that Lincoln despite the fact they only have 1 model, they already have the customers there and Lincoln still needs to bring them in.
Sorry, but i need to differ from you. The Q3 is the small crossover from Audi , and in terms of size and price is nearest the MKC than the bigger Q5. The Q3 is compact crossover with the NX, MKC, BMW X1.

here the link from Car and Driver, about compacts luxury crossovers. http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/q3

The size of the Audis:

Q3
Wheelbase 102,5
length: 172,6
Width: 72,1
Hight: 62,6

Q5:
Wheelbase: 110,5
Length: 182,6
Width: 74,7
Hight: 65,2


MKC:
Wheelbase : 105,9
Length: 179,2
Width: 73,4
Hight: 65,2

Clearly, the MKC is more in line with the Q3.

Here the link from car and Driver about medium size luxury crossovers: http://www.caranddriver.com/audi/q5

The Q5 compete with the MKX, BMW X3, Porsche Macan, Mercedes Benz GLC, Lexus RX
 

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imho
if people cannot agree/tell which Lincoln sedan/CAR competes with midsize or large OR IF Lincoln even HAS anything to compare to a compact-car,
regardless of pricing...


...then I see no reason to split hairs over Cuv sizes


:angel


Lincoln's sales were down 4.5% for the month. Lincoln will have to average about 9000 sales over November and December to break that 100,000 barrier for the year.
something I read somewhere today says ^that^ was due to a normal tho not planned fluctuation in fleet sales.
since FoMoCo made a point of stating BOTH total & retail were up the same percent
(assuming :angel that it applies overall-corp-wide not just the Ford Brand)
then Lincoln At Least didn't lose ground in their retail sales...
...imho


.
 

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SRX doubled it's sales from last year. This is on older, outgoing platform.

So either Cadillac customers swooned after suddenly realizing it is a great product......or other forces were at play.

Me thinks the latter.

Oh wings, every month when the sales figures are released, you must gnash your teeth at the SRX sales numbers. For some reason you really take issue with it and then u go on to post something about people only buying it because it's old (but is it navigator/MKS/MKT old?) and discounted...almost like dealers are putting a gun to consumer's heads and telling them to buy an SRX. Well, the way I see it, NO ONE spends their hard earned $$ on a vehicle they don't like, discounts or not. Just look at MKC. Stop the hate man, you give Lincoln fans a bad name.
 

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Oh wings, every month when the sales figures are released, you must gnash your teeth at the SRX sales numbers. For some reason you really take issue with it and then u go on to post something about people only buying it because it's old (but is it navigator/MKS/MKT old?) and discounted...almost like dealers are putting a gun to consumer's heads and telling them to buy an SRX. Well, the way I see it, NO ONE spends their hard earned $$ on a vehicle they don't like, discounts or not. Just look at MKC. Stop the hate man, you give Lincoln fans a bad name.
Well that's a bit overly dramatic, don't you think? I mean, I merely suggested other influences for doubling sales. And I am hardly the only one who brings it up and discusses it -- yet you only see me talking about it.

Let me ask you then, what do you think is the main contributor for sales doubling from a year ago?
 

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Well that's a bit overly dramatic, don't you think? I mean, I merely suggested other influences for doubling sales. And I am hardly the only one who brings it up and discusses it -- yet you only see me talking about it.

Let me ask you then, what do you think is the main contributor for sales doubling from a year ago?
I replied to your comment because you consistently trash the SRX for having great sales. Why does that cause you to turn a positive into a negative? Consumers love it. I love it except for the dated front. Like I said, discounts or not, the people purchasing it are not going to spend their cash on a car they don't like. Imo, a lot of sales come from ppl re-leasing another SRX. I still admire the styling when I'm behind one in traffic...and I'm not a huge suv fan but I admit, they are great for recreation.

As for nearly doubling sales...I don't see the figures you are talking about. It seems to be on track to be up roughly 10, maybe 20% yearly.
 

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I replied to your comment because you consistently trash the SRX for having great sales. Why does that cause you to turn a positive into a negative? Consumers love it. I love it except for the dated front. Like I said, discounts or not, the people purchasing it are not going to spend their cash on a car they don't like. Imo, a lot of sales come from ppl re-leasing another SRX. I still admire the styling when I'm behind one in traffic...and I'm not a huge suv fan but I admit, they are great for recreation.

As for nearly doubling sales...I don't see the figures you are talking about. It seems to be on track to be up roughly 10, maybe 20% yearly.
Sorry, have not trashed it.......not even close.


But I ask you again, why do you think sales doubled. Simple question I think.
Even easier one here, do you think it is a better product than the MKX?
 

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Apologize in advance for the mega-multi-quote, but I was in Las Vegas all week; AAPEX/SEMA; doing a little catch-up...........

Looks like MKX took sales from MKC. Navigator dropped quite a bit. Still surprised to see Lincoln struggling so much with two fresh crossovers on the market. At least I contributed a Lincoln sale ;)
For the month, yes; MKX stole some MKC sales; or did MKX get back some of the sales the MKC has been stealing for the last 12 months?........... I wouldn't get hung-up on one month, look at the trend, YTD MKC & MKX are up 8,236 units ( 28% ) :rock:


Lincoln is absolutely baffling. For the life of me I cannot understand the MKC not doing 4K a month given what its competing against. Lincoln is just such a broken brand still and I'm not sure what, other than huge helpings of time will ever heal them.
I think we all thought more would be sold, but clearly Ford is regulating the sales, be it Escape capacity or MKC's that are exported; Ford isn't pushing the string.

The MKC is lower volume than we thought, but I bet it is higher margin than we think too.


The year is ending about where I predicted for Lincoln, growth is flat because of the slow MKX launch and light inventories. The MKC is doing a bit worse than I expected and the MKX inventory wasn't quite as constrained as I predicted so that evened out. This is basically a throwaway year for Lincoln, they are still launching a core lineup and getting their message out there. We should see some more growth next year with MKC an MKX established and MKZ and Continental arriving later in the year to spice things up again. But at this rate, I think it's reasonable to a assume that Lincoln just doesn't have that blockbuster potential people are expecting out of them. They have a very small established customer base and are having a hard time getting new customers so that will be their mission over the next 3 years.
I have no idea what you are trying to say, and I'm not sure even you do.......

"growth is flat because of the slow MKX launch and light inventories. The MKC is doing a bit worse than I expected and the MKX inventory wasn't quite as constrained"

Growth is flat becasue of the MKX launch and low inventories, yet the MKC isn't selling as well as expected becasue MKX inventory wasn't as bad!? :facepalm:

Additionally, lets just look at Lincoln and see that 2015 is going to be at/near 100,000 units in the US, almost 25% increase vs. a couple/few years ago. :clap:

I can't grasp why MKC is back below 2000 units. Very disappointing. For all the talk of CUVs these days, Lincoln can't seem to get ahead with theirs.
Escape/MKX/China/High Margins..........


Yeah, sure dude. It's always around the next corner.
So were you expecting 30 or 40 percent growth, in 2015 (vs. a few years ago) with the lack-luster MKS & MKT?


No, I'm irritated that I'm debating fiction and not reality with you. And I get especially irritated when I feel everybody is being strung along by your 'behind the scenes' comments.
Is the 25% growth fiction? You are trying to make issue with smallest of things, and ignore all the positives........... (and dare I say massive growth)

If Lincoln was still pulling ~ 80,000 units/year, you'd have a leg to stand on, but you don't......... :sleeping:

And not only have they grown sales almost 25%, you can bet your $62,615 MSRP Window sticker that ATP's have grown a lot too.


Well that's a bit overly dramatic, don't you think? I mean, I merely suggested other influences for doubling sales. And I am hardly the only one who brings it up and discusses it -- yet you only see me talking about it.

Let me ask you then, what do you think is the main contributor for sales doubling from a year ago?
SRX sales are being severely pushed by Cadillac; the Ramos plant stopped making the Captiva about a year ago, thy are back-filling much of the lost volume with the SRX, mostly via cheap leases, (which will bring back a lot of potential buyers in 24/36 months).

It is actually getting to the point, I believe Cadillac is pushing them out to fleet/rental business, with the body-style and name change it won't have much impact of residuals for the XT5 when it arrives next year. :angel
 

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I said this on GMI, and I will say it here.


My Lincoln dealership, that is the largest in Arizona, and a very high volume Lincoln dealership period...................... has 6 MKX on the ground. They have 27 on order. They are a new Black Label dealership, and the only one in Arizona, and they have ZERO Black Label MKX's.


You cannot sell what you do not have. Even more so in the luxury realm. The luxury buyer who is spending $60K or more is not going to "settle" for what they do not want. 6 examples on the ground is nothing. For goodness sake, they keep around 50 MKZ's in stock, and 35 Navigators.


I think Borg is off his meds again. We all know that the rebuilding of Lincoln is a slow, on-going process. Ford/Lincoln is not pushing the brand any harder than the prestige/customer experience can keep up with. Slow, steady and sustainable growth is what is going on here. No flash in the pan that you give away this year, and then wonder where the sales went next year. No massive piles of Billions spent on ego products that no one except enthusiast magazines pay any attention to. As much as he expects huge results immediately, this will not happen.


I would love to know everything to come, and exactly what Ford/Lincoln expects, as much as anyone. I am, however, realistic. So, I will watch each new product with interest, and see how Ford / Lincoln slowly grow their brand as their brand name grows................... and shake my head and laugh at all of those expecting instant gratification. :D
 
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