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Discussion Starter #1
When is FORD going to start providing any of their small (under 2.0 liter) Euro turbo diesel Duratorq engines in the US market?

There appear to be a significant number of Duratorq drive trains achieving 42/[52] to 56/[67] mpg(US) combined/[highway]. Then there are the Mazda and Volvo offerings in same fuel frugal class.

See vehicles rated above 51 and 61 mpg(Imperial) [42 and 50 mpg(US)] combined cycle on this VCA database:
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/fuelConSearch.asp

I agree that there is a concern about the magnitude of fuel economy loss to comply with domestic emissions requirements.

And I also agree that there is a concern about the incremental cost for clean small turbo diesel engine.

The consumer is NOT interested specifically in SMALL VEHICLES! They ARE interested in FUEL FRUGAL vehicles ... regardless of size. And these Duratorq diesels seem to be the quickest solution providing a practical bridge to future fuel frugal automotive technologies.

Just think what a 1.4 to 2.0 liter Euro diesel could do for fuel economy ratings of the Cruze or Flex ... or anything else for that matter.

The over 2.0 liter Duratorq might do wonders for pickup, SUV, and van fuel economies. Wonder what 30~40 mpg would do to their sales volumes?

Considering current economic conditions including oil imports (and their cost) ... without these classes of fuel frugal vehicles in large volumes, it is reasonable to predict total domestic annual auto sales will be less than 11.5 million units with a Det3 share less than 5 million units (you can guess what Det3 US builds for domestic consumption will be).

These conditions will last at least 3 years in the absence of one or more vehicles available in volume that significantly saves on fuel consumption costs (in the 2 gallons/100 miles range or better) to provide some economic justification for the purchase and an upturn in the economy.

Sorry ... even an incremental step to a true 35 mpg combined average ... JUST DOES NOT CUT IT!

Let me make this perfectly clear ... I WILL NOT BUY ANY VEHICLE THAT CAN NOT PROVIDE BETTER THAN 48 mpg(US) combined average FUEL ECONOMY.

Well, $500.00 ... OK, maybe up to $1,000 for above 38 mpg??? That is what I paid for my used 95 Civic that consistantly provides 38/45 mpg average/highway.

What our family really NEEDS is an affordable 48 mpg combined average (or better) 5 passenger 4/5 door vehicle with AT (6 speed dual-clutch?) AC PS.

Just an additional note: Here in NC there are a very large number of fuel frugal late 1980s to mid 1990s high mpg vehicles being reconditioned and put back on the road (Hondas, Toyotas, Metros, ... the list goes on).

Good LUCK to FORD, the Det3, and their employees.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well, IF .... Ford is not going to start delivering 40 mpg(US) combined average, and higher, mid sized passenger vehicles in the VERY NEAR future, then their continued existence is even more in question.

I have been holding out for a domestically built Det3 vehicle and FORD was my last hope.

I guess that I will have to follow the example of my relatives who went out and bought a new Prius last night. Either that ... or wait for the Honda diesels .... or simply buy a VW diesel now!

Do you ... or ... Ford have any better suggestions for an over 44 mpg combined average 4/5 door 5 passenger (adults) family vehicle with AT and AC any time within the reasonable future (less than 18 months)?
 

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VW Jetta is your best bet, but I don't think fill all of your requirements (only 40 mpg w/auto).

The North American Ford Fiesta, available in about 12 months, will get about 40 mpg, but is not "domestically built" (unless you count Mexico as "domestic" as NAFTA does) and it certainly will not carry 5 adults.
 

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The 2010MY Fusion/Milan Hybrid will use Ford's Gen 2 Hybrid System with many new features. Like electric A/C, so the engine can turn off even when the A/C is on (pretty important in FL and AZ) !
 

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Ford is NOT committed only to EcoBoost, that is a bunch of crap.
Ford is doubling it's hybrid offerings in a couple months, and is commited to everything, including Biofuels, PHEV, H2, and everything else that is feasible.

EB is however the best short term.
I was pumping gas at $2.19 recently, while looking at their Diesel price of $3.89.

Wow.

Diesel was once an efficient offering. Not anymore.
Not with technology gaining so much ground, and of course fuel prices dropping like rocks.

Having driven many EB vehicles now, as well as several European DuraTorq equipped cars, I have to say…they can keep the noisy, clattering, stinky Diesels - and yes I understand that Diesels have come a long way with technology too.

But they simply are not as smooth and quiet as a gas GTDI motor. No way. Not even close.
GTDI by itself already makes an NA gas motor much quieter, and when compared to Diesel…fuhgetaboutit.

Also, GTDI (AKA EB) offers Diesel Torque, in addition to great HP. Not too mention costing thousands less.

If you have not written off Diesel yet, you will.
 

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So is there any word coming out of Ford as to what the expected Fuel Economy will be?


Fusion hybrid will be far better than Camry hybrid.

AFAIAC, the Prius, which is dimensionally the same as a Focus, exactly in fact, is not really a mid-sized car. It does not count. The Fusion hybrid also offers great performance (same as V6), unlike a Prius which needs about 13 sec to hit 60.
 

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Hybrids (including the Ford Gen2 Hybrid and Plugin Hybrids) are still not a "total cost" effective solution for most drivers (they are great if you do a lot of urban driving like in Manhattan).

Ford's official position on biodiesel is nothing more than B5 (most commercial pumps sell B20).
 
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