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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
OMG ... just when I was thinking the GM-led 9-speed was only pretend...
2017 Malibu Premier Debuts New Jointly Developed 9-Speed Transmission
GMinsideNews

by Michael Accardi May 12, 2016

_ _ _ _ _ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Since 2013 we’ve known that GM and Ford had teamed up to develop 10-speed longitudinal and 9-speed transverse transmissions.

While many keystrokes have been shed over the 10-speed debuting in the ZL1 Camaro and the Ford F-150 Raptor, little has been written about the 9-speed.

We still don’t know much about the gearbox itself, however we can tell you the 2017 Malibu Premier will be the first vehicle from either company to use the new 9-speed box.

The lone technical tidbit is the final drive ratio, going from the 8-speed (MRC) to the 9-speed (M3E) changes the final drive axle ratio from 3.08 to 2.89.

L, LS and LT trims will continue to use a 6-speed automatic.

GMi thread // history
 

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So Ford should be making it an option on the 2018 Fusion and MKZ? GM is late with their 2017 model year launch compared to Ford.

The new 2017 EPA testing took 2mpg from the 2017 Fusion, so expect Ford to launch the 9-speed to bring the mpg back up to remain competitive.

Ford and Lincoln have so much going on these days.
 

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I saw one on the road this week, and it just didn't impress me. I liked some of the original pictures, but real-life seems to be too bland and 'lost in the crowd'. I'm not digging Chevy's face either.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #4
^ I haven't seen a New-Bu on the road yet but
at our autoshow-let, liked it better than pix cuz many of it s MANY lines disappeared in person - or at least weren't noticeable (so why bother?),
the face - of All(?) Chevys - well guess I've gotten conditioned to block them out
:yikes:

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I'm really REALLY wondering about the Conti now = if the 9-speed is actually (almost)ready
:toetap:
 

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^ I haven't seen a New-Bu on the road yet but
at our autoshow-let, liked it better than pix cuz many of it s MANY lines disappeared in person - or at least weren't noticeable (so why bother?),
the face - of All(?) Chevys - well guess I've gotten conditioned to block them out
:yikes:

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I'm really REALLY wondering about the Conti now = if the 9-speed is actually (almost)ready
:toetap:
Totally agree; the Continental would be a great platform to start with. If it can be successfully mated to the new 3.0 Turbo, it might really make for some surprising numbers.
 

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General Motors has issued a sales halt for nearly 60,000 Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave crossovers sitting in dealer inventory.

The action is not related to a defect, but rather a misleading fuel-efficiency sticker attached to each 2016 vehicle. The labels are said to show ratings "1-2 mpg higher than it should have been," according to a dealer memo cited by Automotive News.

"GM is stopping sale of the affected models until a corrected label is printed and affixed," dealers were told.

The automaker has blamed an inadvertent "data transmission" error that led to incorrect figures on both front- and all-wheel drive variants. The FWD crossovers should show city/highway ratings of 15/22 mpg, however the window stickers currently list 17/24 mpg.

The botched labels shed light on an unexplained downgrade in the crossovers' mpg ratings from the 2015 to 2016 model year. All are equipped by the same 3.6-liter V6 and six-speed automatic transmission, but the rating mysteriously dropped from 17/24 mpg in 2015 to 15/22 mpg for 2016. The AWD variants followed the same trend, falling from 16/23 mpg to 15/22 mpg."

Read more: http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-halts-crossover-sales-over-mpg-label-misprint-91761.html#ixzz48aELPMsh
 

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^....'error"??? I think not! GM was just trying to work a loophole around the new 2017 EPA rules, by double launching 2016 models trying to stay with old EPA rules, when one should have been a 2017 model. Another example is the Malibu. Old Malibu is a 2016 model, along with the New model being a 2016 model. We should hear about that model being added to the list soon.

Unless improvements are made, mpg will drop 2mpg combined. 2017 Fusion 1.5 and 2.0 already took a hit. 2017 Fusion AWD lost 2mpg combined, so I expect the 9-speed transmission necessary to resolve this hit to the Fusion's efficiency status.

I put this article here because it will be the new 9-speed transmission that can possibly regain maybe 1 mpg going from 8-speed to 9-speed. But Fusion should get the biggest gain going from the 6-speed to the 9-speed.
 

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"The botched labels shed light on an unexplained downgrade in the crossovers' mpg ratings from the 2015 to 2016 model year. All are equipped by the same 3.6-liter V6 and six-speed automatic transmission, but the rating mysteriously dropped from 17/24 mpg in 2015 to 15/22 mpg for 2016. The AWD variants followed the same trend, falling from 16/23 mpg to 15/22 mpg."

What seems to be happening is that the EPA 'model year' schedule is not the calendar year or the model year the automaker assigns when launching the vehicle, but the timeframe the vehicle is sold before a new model year is launched based on the automakers launch cycle. GM has a late model year launch schedule, which has them selling a previous model year well into the next model year. Which means the 2016MY Traverse launched late, and scheduled to roll well into what should be MY2017 based on EPA schedules.

Ford on the other hand has early launch dates, which is why the Escape(for sale April 2016), down 2mpg combined 2WD and AWD, is already following the new EPA rules, and needs the new 9-speed.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Bloggin said:
"The botched labels shed light on an unexplained downgrade in the crossovers' mpg ratings from the 2015 to 2016 model year. All are equipped by the same 3.6-liter V6 and six-speed automatic transmission, but the rating mysteriously dropped from 17/24 mpg in 2015 to 15/22 mpg for 2016. The AWD variants followed the same trend, falling from 16/23 mpg to 15/22 mpg."

What seems to be happening is that the EPA 'model year' schedule is not the calendar year or the model year the automaker assigns when launching the vehicle, but the timeframe the vehicle is sold before a new model year is launched based on the automakers launch cycle. GM has a late model year launch schedule, which has them selling a previous model year well into the next model year. Which means the 2016MY Traverse launched late, and scheduled to roll well into what should be MY2017 based on EPA schedules.

Ford on the other hand has early launch dates, which is why the Escape(for sale April 2016), down 2mpg combined 2WD and AWD, is already following the new EPA rules, and needs the new 9-speed.
I'm so confused ^ (tho also short on sleep) :yikes:



&
Anyone else having trouble with
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:banghead:
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #12
Inside GM and Ford’s Transmission Sharing Strategy
GMI: article - thread

by Michael Accardi May 17, 2016

One of our sources has shed light on the transmission sharing strategy between the General and FoMoCo.

The pair agreed to develop 9-speed and 10-speed transmissions together back in 2013...

...On the 9-speed front, it’s being launched in the Malibu Premier first; it’s believed Ford will launch the 9-speed sometime during 2017 in the Fusion, before full blown roll out with the next-gen Fusion. GM is expected to launch the 9-speed across the full Malibu range come 2018.

...the 9-speed is being evaluated for fuel economy as well as performance for a small displacement turbo...

...The 9-speed picture remains murkier. Beyond the Malibu and Fusion there are no additional confirmations, but there has been speculation the new Acadia will gain the gearbox, by extension we should see it in the Buick Envision and the new Equinox at some point. On the Ford side the Fusions CD3 platform mates the Ford Edge and Lincoln’s MKX and MKZ are the leading candidates.
 

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I think on the Ford side, the new 9-speed will launch in a version of the 2017 Fusion/MKZ and at the same time being an option on a trim level of the 2017 Edge/MKX, Escape and 2017 Continental 3.0t.

With 2017 EPA rules knocking off about 2mpg combined across the lineup, I would expect Ford to usher in the new 9 and 10-speed in volume models with speed.

Best of all, all NEW Lincoln cars and CUVs will be 9-speed by MY2018. Then will launch the New Navigator with the 10-speed.

I wonder if the 9-speed will fit in the refreshed 2017 MKT?

 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
if anyone is bored...
(I would be if my mouse & keybord didn't stop working every 2-5mins)
I'd love to see a list of all vehicles that (COULD) use th(is Transmission) in THIS order
- 3.0T
- 2.7T/EB
- 3.5T/EB
- 3.7
- 2.3EB
- everything else whatevs
cuz without really thinking about it, that's how I might like the 9-speed deployed
:joyous:
 

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The F-150 launch on the Raptor and 3.5L EcoBoost does make it seem that Ford is launching on 'upgrade' engines, my guess is to minimize the price premium for the new transmission. Understanding that the cost of the premium engine must be going down, while the new transmission brings the combo back up. The 3.5L upgrade is already about $2,500 at lower trim levels for the F-150, so expect to increase the take rate, Ford will keep the upgrade about the same. Seeing that Ford needs the mpg increase for the high volume F-150 models for overall CAFE numbers as much as the consumer does personally.
 

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In a statement Wednesday to Automotive News, GM provided more information about how it says the error occurred. The ’16 models were equipped with new “emissions-related hardware,” which required new emissions tests for those vehicles, GM said.

“The fuel economy data from these tests were not captured in calculations made for EPA fuel economy labels ... causing 2016 model year fuel economy numbers to be overstated,” it said.


It seems trying to push actual 2017 model vehicles in under 2016 rules didn't work out. The new 'emissions-related hardware' was specifically for 2017 model year vehicles, and was required for the vehicles because they were launched well into the EPA's 2017 production model year.

GM and their double-speak continues, just like trying not to call the Volt a plug-in hybrid, which it is.
 

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"Technology Preview: We Drive Honda's 10-Speed Automatic Transmission
Motorathority

Nov 11, 2015
It wasn't too long ago that a six-speed automatic transmission was state of the art. Then we got seven-speed, eight-speed, and nine-speed units. One of the nine-speeds, designed by noted transmission manufacturer ZF, has given multi-speed transmissions a bad reputation. Paired with four-cylinder and V-6 transverse-mounted engines in Fiat Chrysler Automobiles [NYSE:FCAU], Jaguar Land Rover, and Honda/Acura vehicles, it dithers instead of downshifting, sometimes clunks into gears, and barely ever reaches the top gear.

Given those shortcomings, it may not be wise for any automaker to build a transmission with more gears. And yet Ford Motor Company [NYSE:F] and General Motors Company [NYSE:GM] are teaming up to build a 10-speed, and Honda is developing one of its own. The plan is to use the 10-speed with the V-6 engines in large Honda and Acura vehicles, possibly in 2018 models. Honda says it will improve fuel economy by 6.0 percent over the current six-speed.

Prior to the Tokyo Motor Show in late October, I got the chance to sample Honda's forthcoming 10-speed at the company's R&D Center in Tochigi, Japan.

The car I drove was an Acura RLX, which was paired with a 310-horsepower 3.5-liter V-6 and a development version of the 10-speed. The test drive consisted of two laps around the facility's high-speed oval, which means I spent just a few minutes in the car. However, I was able to assess how this transmission acts in its current stage of development.

Both when accelerating from a stop and when fluctuating speeds, the transmission executed smooth shifts without delay. There was none of the shift shock that you get with the ZF nine-speed. I also eased along at about 70 mph to see if it would be able to get into 10th gear. That happened without a problem, and it was quite a weird sight to see 10th gear indicated in the instrument cluster between the speedometer and tachometer.

The oval permitted speeds up to 111 mph, and while I got up to that speed, I also slowed down to 70 then punched it to see how the transmission would react in a simulated passing procedure. Honda says the transmission can downshift up to four gears at a time, but during this test the transmission downshifted from 10th all the way to 4th. It probably occurred in two steps: 10th to 6th, then 6th to 4th, but it happened quickly enough that any driver would be happy with that performance on the highway.

My time with the 10-speed was too limited to render a verdict, and low-speed city driving would expose any problems it might have with indecision. However, based on this short drive, this transmission looks like a winner."
 

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I'm kind of curious what all will get the 9-speed. I cant imagine all FWD/AWD vehicles will get it as it doesnt seem like it would make a lot of sense in low torque applications like the Focus or Fiesta.
 

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I'm kind of curious what all will get the 9-speed. I cant imagine all FWD/AWD vehicles will get it as it doesnt seem like it would make a lot of sense in low torque applications like the Focus or Fiesta.
Yes, I also foresee a continued of mating the 6-speed to the base and small EB engines in these cars. However, the ST and RS model, hmmmmm.
 
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