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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #1
Nine out of 10 new diesel cars exceed EU pollution limits..
theGuardian.com

Damian Carrington
14 September 2015


Nine out of 10 new diesel cars break new EU pollution limits when tested on roads rather than test tracks, according to a new report.

On average, the cars emit seven times the permitted level of NOx gasses, with the worst car producing 22 times the legal limit. Models from every major motor manufacturer breached the limit when they were evaluated in real-world conditions.

From 1 September, new diesel cars in the EU have had to comply with emissions rules called “Euro 6”. However, carmakers can use a whole range of techniques to ensure that their cars perform far better under test conditions than when driven by ordinary drivers.

These include stripping components from the car to reduce weight, using special lubricants, over-inflating tyres and using super-smooth test tracks. The same techniques are used to boost the apparent fuel efficiency of vehicles.

The report, from sustainable transport group Transport & Environment (T&E), compiled recent data to show that when diesel vehicles are tested in normal driving conditions they emit much greater levels of NOx gases. NOx gases and other vehicle-related pollution are estimated to cause half a million premature deaths each year in the EU.

The T&E report also found that motor manufacturers often sell less polluting models of the same cars in the US, where emissions rules are stricter. This is achieved by including devices that capture pollution and cost a few hundred euros...

...In April, the UK’s supreme court ordered the government to tackle the UK’s air pollution, which has been in breach of EU limits for years. Proposals from ministers released on Saturday include improving public transport and creating low-emission zones in a number of cities, perhaps following the lead of central London where most diesel drivers will have to pay a £12.50 pollution charge from 2020.

There are plans to introduce a new on-road test that will measure the real-world emissions of diesel cars, but it will not apply to all new EU cars until 2018 at the earliest. Carmakers have argued that on-road testing should be delayed until 2020...
 

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Re: illegal pollution: 90% NEW Yurp Diesels WAY over Limits in RealWorld

I think automakers should have gone the extra step and did on-road testing to ensure their diesels were in compliance. But I am sure they all did, and choose the easier/less expensive route to get new diesels to market now, while still working to improve for when they got caught.

But until the tricks/loopholes are closed in the requirements, there won't be a viable solution.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #4
what's good for the Yurp is good for the Yanker...

EPA accuses VW of cheating on emission rules
CNNMoney

September 18, 2015


Diesel cars from Volkswagen and Audi cheated on clean air rules by including software that made the cars' emissions look cleaner than they actually were, according to federal and California regulators.

The regulators say that the software on the cars turns on emission controls only when it detects that the car was being tested.

"The effectiveness of these vehicles' pollution emissions control devices is greatly reduced during all normal driving situations," said the Environmental Protection Agency's notice to the company. "This results in cars that meet emissions standards in the laboratory or testing station, but during normal operation, emit nitrogen oxides at up to 40 times the standard."

There are nearly 500,000 of these diesel cars on U.S. roads. The models include the VW Jetta, the Beetle and the Golf from model years 2009 through 2015, the Passat from 2014-2015 as well as the Audi A3, model years 2009-2015. The Audi luxury brand is owned by Volkswagen Group...

...the EPA has ordered VW to recall the cars and fix the violation. No recall has yet been announced.

VW said it is cooperating with the investigation.

The EPA did not say how much VW would ultimately be fined for this infraction...

...Representatives from EPA and the California Air Resources Board, which did the testing that uncovered the problem, would not say whether a change a software to correct the emissions violation would have a negative impact on the cars' performance or fuel economy...
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #5
more:

BREAKING:
VW, Audi TDI Diesel Cars Had 'Defeat Device' That Violated EPA Rules, 500K Cars Recalled

GreenCarReports

John Voelcker
Sep 18, 2015


...Other carmakers that chose to sell diesels after the regulations took effect in 2008 used urea injection and more complex emission-control systems to control nitrous-oxide emissions than Volkswagen.

The system requires a separate tank holding a specific formulation of urea liquid that is injected into the aftertreatment system at certain times.

For its small four-cylinder TDI diesel, VW's vehicles were able to meet the EPA limits without the urea-injection--the sole carmaker to be able make that claim...

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EPA: Volkswagen cheated on emissions standards
MarkeWatch

By Claudia Assis
Published: Sept 18, 2015


...Since civil penalties for each car in violation run about $35,500, Volkswagen could be on hook for more than $17 billion in penalties plus other fines...

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EPA accuses Volkswagen, Audi of evading emission laws
USA Today

Nathan Bomey
September 18, 2015

...Volkswagen admitted to investigators that it had installed the defeat device, the EPA said...
...What's more, the scandal could expose Volkswagen to lawsuits and penalties for marketing its cars under the "Clean Diesel" moniker. An hour after the EPA announcement, the automaker's website still contained the "Clean Diesel" branding.
About 20% of Volkswagen's vehicle sales are diesel engines...

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EPA: Volkswagen used software to skirt emissions rules
Detroit Free Press

By Greg Gardner
September 18, 2015


...Affected diesel models include:
• Jetta (model years 2009 – 2015)
• Beetle (model years 2009 – 2015)
• Audi A3 (model years 2009 – 2015)
• Golf (model years 2009 – 2015)
• Passat (model years 2014-2015)...
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #6
from snippets I saw on TV,
VW is going to have to turn the emission-controls ON-fulltime
so
all those people will see their diesels' mpg DROP

( ex: from 40mpg to 30mpg ? )

I wonder
-- how many will get a new vehicle asap
-- how much the (resale) value will fall
-- how low the take rate of new UNefficient VWs will be
 

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"Under federal law, the EPA can levy a maximum possible fine of $37,500 per vehicle, EPA officials said on a conference call with reporters today, meaning VW and Audi face potential fines of up to $18 billion for the alleged violations."

"And in what could be the first of many suits, owners of Volkswagen and Audi models with diesel engines late Friday filed a class-action lawsuit against VW. The suit, filed in California, accuses Volkswagen of fraudulent concealment, false advertising and violating consumer rights laws."

"Vehicle owners will suffer loss of vehicle value due to Volkswagen’s future recalls and degrading of performance characteristics such as horsepower and fuel efficiency in order to make vehicles meet EPA standards," the suit says.

"The tinkering that Volkswagen will have to do by law to fix these vehicles will almost certainly degrade the performance to less than what Volkswagen claimed when it originally sold these cars,” said Steve Berman, a class action attorney in Seattle who brought the suit and has filed similar, successfully cases against Toyota and Hyundai.

"The alleged violations also come just days before VW plans to reveal a significantly updated 2016 Passat midsize sedan to journalists at an event in New York City on Monday"
 

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from snippets I saw on TV,
VW is going to have to turn the emission-controls ON-fulltime
so
all those people will see their diesels' mpg DROP

( ex: from 40mpg to 30mpg ? )

I wonder
-- how many will get a new vehicle asap
-- how much the (resale) value will fall
-- how low the take rate of new UNefficient VWs will be
All VW and Audi models with the 2.0L Diesel engine will have to be retested after the software 'switch' is removed, and get new EPA emissions and mpg ratings. Along with Consumer reports that is holding their recommendation of VW and Audi models with diesel engines until 'clean' models are available for testing.

To removed 40 times the emissions, the mpg has to drop 10mpg or more. With city mpg taking the greatest hit.

I am waiting to hear about the 'stop sale' for all diesel models from VW and Audi, since they have to rectify the vehicles with the EPA to get new performance and mpg estimates. A new window sticker has to be required for all diesel models now on deals lots that need to be 'fixed'.

Did a screenshot of each model diesel specs page with hp and mpg to see if anything changes overnight. Because right now it's clear the data is wrong.

2015 A3 fuel economy data is missing from the Audi site(TBA), but it's still on the EPA site.
 

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http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-volkswagen-probe-20150918-story.html

"The state Air Resources Board became suspicious after hearing about emissions problems from automotive pollution analysts in Europe, Corey said. Additionally, researchers at West Virginia University, working with the International Council on Clean Transportation, a nongovernmental organization, raised questions about emissions levels."

Something tells me that European countries are doing their own VW diesel testing looking for the same software 'cheat' used in the US.

"VW programmed the engines to detect certification tests over many years and through three generations of engines, said Dave Sullivan, manager of product analysis at consulting firm AutoPacific Inc."

"In addition to fines, VW will likely face consumer lawsuits on two fronts, said Steve Berman, a class action attorney in Seattle who has successfully brought such cases against Toyota, Hyundai among others.

Berman said he is already preparing a lawsuit on behalf of a Marin County, Calif. owner who bought a VW because it was marketed as a clean car and “now they find out it was polluting the environment at 40 times standards.”

VW also will face what is known as a “diminished value” lawsuit because the vehicles are likely to lose a portion of their resale value because of the problem, he said."

And this is not just a simple software fix for VW/Audi.....

“They will have to retool the emissions system, and that will hurt the performance of the car,” Berman said."

"But the automaker and regulators may have trouble getting consumers to bring their cars into get fixed — especially if the fix decreases performance or fuel economy, the main selling points for the cars."

Owners should have X number of days to have the emissions fixed or their tag is revoked, since the vehicle never passed the emissions testing in the first place. Then again, when they consumer brings in the vehicle for it's next emissions test, it will fail without being fixed by VW. I am sure CA is looking into how to make this happen.

40 times the emissions legal limit is no joke. Especially in CA that is the Hybrid and EV capital of the US.

VW/Audi just lost the CA market. Going forward from yesterday, driving a VW or Audi diesel, no matter what diesel engine, especially in CA, will be frowned upon, whether it never needed to be fixed, or if it's 'fixed' or not.

The public won't know which VW or Audi diesel models have the 1.8L or 2.0 or any other diesel engine....

VW/Audi Diesel = Dirty Diesel 40 times the legal limit.
 

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"In order to be able to resume sales of diesels, Grundler said, VW has to engineer a fix to bring those vehicles into compliance, and receive EPA approval before a recall can commence. It’s not clear yet whether that fix will consist of a change to the engine’s emission control software or more substantial engineering changes to vehicle hardware, Grundler said.

According to the EPA’s website, it could take up to one year to identify “corrective actions,” develop a recall plan and issue recall notices. But Grundler declined to discuss a specific timetable.

“Until we gather that information and are convinced ... we’re not going to go forward with the recall,” Grundler said. “It will take more work to determine what the appropriate remedy for these vehicles is.”

"VW will also have to convince the EPA and California’s Air Resources Board that its 2016 model year diesel vehicles will comply with emissions standards and are free of any illegal software, Grundler said. Until then, the agency will continue to withhold the emission certifications needed to begin sales of those models, which are currently being withheld from dealers."
 

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VW has about 9,000 new 2015 diesel models on dealer lots in the US that can't be sold until AFTER they have an EPA approved fix/recall in place. Which means these vehicles could sit for up to a year.

There are just over 100 new 2016 models VWs sitting also that can't be sold. Thousands more not able to be delivered to dealerships without EPA certification. There is little doubt that the new 2016 model 2.0L diesel VWs won't have already the defeat software installed also.
 

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While this isn't a life or death issue like the GM ignition fiasco this is equally shady in terms of their having actively developed and shipped vehicles that cheated, by design! I thought the justice department went way to easy on GM, it'll be interesting to see if they lay the hammer to VW.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #17

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I wonder how long the EPA and California will allow the current owners of the 2.0L diesel VW models to keep driving them, knowing that they never passed emissions testing. Especially those that have tags that expire in Sept(and every month after that) and need a new emissions test(that it can't pass) to get that tag.

It just sounds like VW will need to offer replacement cars to those owners until a EPA certified 'fix' is available, in about a year.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #19
I wonder if any dealers or dealer organization will file a lawsuit against VW?

Why VW Might Not Be The Only Automaker With A Pollution Problem
Yahoo/autos

Justin Hyde, Managing Editor
September 21, 2015


Volkswagen’s admission Friday that it built at least 482,000 diesels for the U.S. market with software designed to fake EPA emissions tests sent shock waves through the global auto industry, while sparking a personal apology from VW’s chief executive.

Yet the whole probe was kicked off by a small advocacy group with experience in testing whether diesel cars were meeting their legal obligations — and those tests suggest VW isn’t alone, something U.S. regulators will now pursue...
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #20
more jollypop


Volkswagen Is Screwed
Jalopnik

Matt Hardigree
9/21/15


Good reporting is often just aggressive skepticism, and so my goal for this column was to do the Slate-ian thing of finding reasons why Dieselgate may not be so bad for Volkswagen. I can’t. This is about as bad as it gets for a car company.

There’s almost nothing that a healthy company can’t survive and recent controversies are a good guide...
...This is different.

Patrick’s “Dieselgate” explainer gets into a lot of the underlying issues and it’s all bad. Volkswagen tried to sell a car in the United States with a “clean” diesel engine that didn’t require the kind of additives that every other person selling a diesel in the country needed. It wasn’t magical technology, apparently. It was just cheating.

I think Volkswagen is now in a uniquely bad situation.

There’s No Obvious Fall Guy...

There’s No Obvious Good Fix

As we pointed out earlier, Volkswagen tried to recall these vehicles in December to fix the problems. It didn’t work (which brings up another question: What, exactly, did they do and who knew that they were likely stalling?) in reducing NOx emissions...

...I said there’s no obvious good fix. There is a bad one. It’s clear that, since they cheated, Volkswagen has a mode within the electronics of the vehicle that’ll make the engines in roughly 500,000 cars they sold run cleaner. It seems likely this fix will make the cars slower and less efficient.

That’s a fix that’ll make regulators happy, but it’s going to be pretty terrible for customers. The resale values of the vehicle could plummet. Volkswagen is going to face lawsuits. People will no longer trust Volkswagen and, in many cases, these are Volkswagen’s best customers.

The newer (2015+) vehicles have an AdBlue urea-injection system (which injects the solution into the exhaust) and it’s not clear yet how well those work. Some number of the older cars also have this system (after MY 2012). It’s possible the addition of those systems was to fix this very problem so newer cars might be in better shape. We have an email in to the EPA asking how that will work.

They could try adding AdBlue systems to the older cars, but that seems unreasonably complex.
This Is The Worst Possible Timing For Volkswagen

Hey, guess who has two thumbs and an invite to an event in Brooklyn tonight where Volkswagen is going to show off the newly restyled Volkswagen Passat? This guy. I have a feeling the atmosphere won’t be too jovial...

This Is The Best Possible Timing For Regulators, Which Is Bad For Volkswagen
...VW has admitted guilt. They clearly tried to conceal facts from regulators. Their political power is concentrated in Tennessee, which has little national sway right now.

They’re the perfect target. Billions of dollars in fines? Almost certain. Costly recalls? Yeah, totally. Lawsuits? Yep. Individual prosecution? Unless Volkswagen HQ commits mass suicide it’s hard not to see prosecutors trying to nail someone.

What Can Volkswagen Do?
From where it sits now – and we’re way early in this – it seems all that Volkswagen can do at this point is to get it over as fast as possible and cut some pretty awful deals. If the company tries to put up a fight they risk exposing everything.

They’re going to have to pay and, while I doubt it’s going to be $18 billion, it ain’t going to be cheap.

They’ll also have to consider abandoning their diesel plans in the United States (also, I’m sure Jaguar Land Rover is happy to be doing their diesel push now that VW has made it a dirty word).

****, at this point, they should just buy Tesla to change the subject and claim they’re doubling down on EVs.
 
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