Ford Inside News banner

41 - 60 of 275 Posts

·
Mercury C557
Joined
·
22,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
I'm a little confused then, is this US-only fraud or company-wide fraud? Have they not discovered the same defeat technology in EU vehicles?
500,000 vehicles in the U.S

11,000,000 globally

imho, only the U.S vehicles have been tested in a way that SHOWS the duplicitous** results so far


** double-dealing, literally in this case
 

·
Mercury C557
Joined
·
22,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #42
2.- Will the CEO Winterkorn resign? Will be fired by the board? Who will take the office?
VW Chief Winterkorn Steps Down After Emissions Scandal
Bloomberg

by Chad Thomas
September 23, 2015 — 8:04 AM PDT
Updated on September 23, 2015 — 10:32 AM PDT


- - - - - - -

Dr. Show-Me @ GMI said:
Wintercorn...Apparently he was in charge of R&D from 2005-2015, so everything would have to go through him
I might bet that in 24hrs this guy won't be found / be on the lamm with all his (allegedly) ill-gotten gains

&
voyager @ GMI said:
There comes a time that we will (standup comedians first) look back upon Volkswagen’s turbo diesels as the first intelligent car...
:thumb: = the automotive-Turing Test
smart enough to cheat on tests
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,893 Posts
"Working in the new CEO’s favor is an automaker that for the moment is financially sound. Volkswagen’s automotive division had net liquidity of 21.5 billion euros at the end of June, "

That should be just about enough to handle the 'up to $18 Billion' dollar fine due from the EPA.
 

·
Mercury C557
Joined
·
22,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #44
VW Group CEO Winterkorn Resigns Amid Growing Emissions Crisis
AutoInfoQuest

September 23, 2015


...Meanwhile, the formal legal investigation into the scandal reached a new tempo when it was revealed that the U.S. Department of Justice plans to prosecute more executives for various white collar crimes. This decision rescinds the rather light handed method of dealing with the problem that was spearheaded by former Attorney General Eric Holder. As a result of these initial prosecutions, the government could bring even more indictments targeting executives as well as key low level workers if evidence suggests that they were involved in the illegal installation of the defeat devices...

- - - - - - -

:clap:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,799 Posts
Okay, and VW admitted that the defeat technology is globally distributed. Got it, just making sure I'm tracing the evolution of this story correctly.

So...how about that next-gen Passat debut next week? :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,893 Posts
Okay, and VW admitted that the defeat technology is globally distributed. Got it, just making sure I'm tracing the evolution of this story correctly.

So...how about that next-gen Passat debut next week? :)

Not much to talk about. Still bland with lots more plastic up front. Can't sell the 2016 2.0L TDI until the investigation and certification by the EPA is done.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,893 Posts
It's done. VW removed all reference of the 2.0 TDI from their website, along with removing the 2.0L TDI as an option for the Golf, Beetle, Jetta and Passat. Pages were rewritten to remove any reference to the TDI engines except for the Touareg.

The Touareg with the 3.0L TDI is still there without the Efficiency link, but it's now just under Performance. But that engine investigation has just become with the EPA.

On the Audi side, the 2.0L is missing for the A3 and A4 models. Now only the 3.0L TDI available on the A6, A7, A8, Q5 and Q7.

Porsche still has the 3.0L Diesel for the Cayenne. For now....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,893 Posts
I would still like to know what happens when an owner takes their VW, with the 2.0L TDI engine, in to get an emissions test to get a new tag this month. It can't possibly pass the emissions test, which means no new tag. Does VW then offer a loaner until they car is fixed? I am sure this is already happening somewhere in the states.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,013 Posts
I would still like to know what happens when an owner takes their VW, with the 2.0L TDI engine, in to get an emissions test to get a new tag this month. It can't possibly pass the emissions test, which means no new tag. Does VW then offer a loaner until they car is fixed? I am sure this is already happening somewhere in the states.
The more practical solution is that VW buy the car from customer. There is not possible to fix this easily. Tha cars cant pass the test for emissions. Not legally.

The last news (updating every minute) are about the fire of some executives: the CEO of VW USA, Michael Horn and other 3 executives. The current Chieff of Skoda is the 1st option to run the USA unit, now.

And BMW is on fire. The German gov will probe BMWs cars searching for similar VW devices. A tested diesel X3 show emissions 11 times greater than alowed in Europe...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,893 Posts
The more practical solution is that VW buy the car from customer. There is not possible to fix this easily. Tha cars cant pass the test for emissions. Not legally.

The last news (updating every minute) are about the fire of some executives: the CEO of VW USA, Michael Horn and other 3 executives. The current Chieff of Skoda is the 1st option to run the USA unit, now.

And BMW is on fire. The German gov will probe BMWs cars searching for similar VW devices. A tested diesel X3 show emissions 11 times greater than alowed in Europe...
I read where the engineer that found the 'defeat' software code, stated that the fix could be an easy one by just updating the software and recalibrating valve timing, etc. They were able to do it in the lab. I am sure VW is trying to get this fix done before the end of this month, to get approval by Oct and get sales started again of their 2.0L TDI diesel models.

Lots of promotions are coming at VW Group...lol Yes, I saw that about BMW, and that ALL models of Mercedes-Benz diesel cars offered up to 50% more emissions in the real world when not on testing machines. There is about to be a big crack down on cheating the EU emissions tests by manufacturers. Diesel or gasoline cars. All the German automakers are on notice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,401 Posts
I read where the engineer that found the 'defeat' software code, stated that the fix could be an easy one by just updating the software and recalibrating valve timing, etc. They were able to do it in the lab. I am sure VW is trying to get this fix done before the end of this month, to get approval by Oct and get sales started again of their 2.0L TDI diesel models.
The problem with the software fix is it greatly reduces power output. VW is screwed either way, go the software route and customers are going to be pissed that their car is no longer the car they purchased and VW will be sued and forced to take them back. With all the bad press coming their way VW would be smart to get out in front of this, avoid the customer lawsuits and just offer to buy them back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,013 Posts
I read where the engineer that found the 'defeat' software code, stated that the fix could be an easy one by just updating the software and recalibrating valve timing, etc. They were able to do it in the lab. I am sure VW is trying to get this fix done before the end of this month, to get approval by Oct and get sales started again of their 2.0L TDI diesel models.

Lots of promotions are coming at VW Group...lol Yes, I saw that about BMW, and that ALL models of Mercedes-Benz diesel cars offered up to 50% more emissions in the real world when not on testing machines. There is about to be a big crack down on cheating the EU emissions tests by manufacturers. Diesel or gasoline cars. All the German automakers are on notice.
If that is possible, i no doubt it. But, if you change the software, the valve timing programation and other parameters, the economy and the power of the engine will not be the same. Is that the reason VW did it. The hidden code let them to have an engine more clean, more powerful and with better economy . A "super engine" ,invencible. Now, we know that engine are not real. is impossible to make an engine like this.

If the customer's cars will fix by VW in this form, they will have a different engine than they expected when they bougth it: A car with less power and a car that consume more fuel. This is a fraud. I think VW cant avoid a criminal charges. The smartest solution is to buy back the cars and pay the fines with an arrangement with the USA authorities. Even in this case, some executives are in risk to go to jail...
 

·
Mercury C557
Joined
·
22,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #53
I read where the engineer that found the 'defeat' software code, stated that the fix could be an easy one by just updating the software and recalibrating valve timing, etc...
there's 'fix' then "FIX" ... imho for the U.S:

-1- a quickie to allow re-certification of owners' cars so they COULD LEGALLY keep driving them (even if the performance *&* MPG suck) until
-2- Dubber can start buying them back
-3- some kind of lasting mechanical-changes (+$?) for those who WANT/need to keep them
-4- UNavoidable lawsuits of every type imaginable
-2b- Dubber starts buying back ALL their vehicles due to "loss of value"
-5- Dealer-fix (who get AT LEAST 50% of my sympathy)
-6- next step(s) Business-Transition:: I don't see any point to trying to re-build the VW brand** &but dismantling it (or switching to Skoda or something) is going to take non-Germanic-smarts (we know best) to avoid making things WORSE


** ref.: article(s) about how poor VW-US's status was before this
 

·
Mercury C557
Joined
·
22,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #54
I've seen mixed opinions on the validity but

Report: BMW X3 Diesel Emissions Also Exceed Legal Limit
C&D

September 24, 2015 at 10:38 am by Robert Sorokanich

...handy Links to originating & other articles...


edit/UPdate
Diesel BMW, Mercedes, Opel, PSA Cars Suspected Of Cheating On Emissions Tests As Well
CarScoops

September 24, 2015 | Posted by Dan Mihalascu

..A report from Transport & Environment drops the bomb, claiming more carmakers sell vehicles which exceed the European limit for air pollution...

- - - - - - -

& saw elsewhere:
...Reuters (via Automotive News) and German publication Bild is reporting that three executives will be dismissed. The three are,
- Michael Horn, Volkswagen U.S. CEO
- Ulrich Hackenberg, Audi's r&d Boss
- Wolfgang Hatz, Porsche's engine chief...
...if the reports are true, there will be one party not happy with the decision; Volkswagen's dealers in the U.S. Horn has earned the support of many dealers in the U.S.
“We as a dealer body would be in a disagreement with a leadership change at this critical time in the U.S. market,” said Alan Brown, chairman of Volkswagen’s national dealer council...
...German weekly Spiegel reported that VW's brand development chief Heinz-Jakob Neusser will also go...

- - - - - - -
fwiw
a Canadian's Lament
...Driving a lie...


- - - - - - -

small collection of anti-DubDub memes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,401 Posts
Considering how VW has passed on Hybrid and tied their entire image to the idea of high MPG clean diesel tech it'll be interesting to see if/how the public's perception changes going forward. From what they've said the 2015 and newer models use a different engine with Urea injection so they're likely, possibly, maybe actually clean. Even if the new cars are as advertised, will VW's brand take a big hit and sales drop? I hope so, they deserve it!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,893 Posts
Considering how VW has passed on Hybrid and tied their entire image to the idea of high MPG clean diesel tech it'll be interesting to see if/how the public's perception changes going forward. From what they've said the 2015 and newer models use a different engine with Urea injection so they're likely, possibly, maybe actually clean. Even if the new cars are as advertised, will VW's brand take a big hit and sales drop? I hope so, they deserve it!
VW does have a rather poorly performing Jetta Hybrid with less 'legal' mpg than the 'illegal' Jetta diesel. I think VW's big problem is that the EU or Germany allows the workarounds with diesel engine emissions for so long, the tVW never put much effort into actually making a cleaner engine. Why would they if it really was not necessary to get emissions approval in their home country. But sending them to the US was a different story, but they had to, since they did not put dollars behind making more efficient gasoline engines or hybrid technology. They saved billions in development costs by using the same diesel engines in most everything and never actually having to meet the EU emissions standards.

It's only recently has VW finally invested in more efficient gasoline engines. Mostly because the EU is cracking down once again with new stricter diesel emissions standards satin in 2017(which may be pushed up to 2016). So we now see more efficient gasoline engines in the VW vehicles. Or do we. I would expect the EPA will retest those engines also to see if VW has added more software to trick the emissions testing equipment. The did it with 11 million diesels, so what's a few more gasoline engines more.

I offer all this to say that VW screwed themselves royally. Now trying to push plug-in hybrids in a big way and EVs. This is about 5 years too late.
 

·
Mercury C557
Joined
·
22,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #57
just saw on evening tv news, a 'Dubsel' owner who's also a car mechanic interviewed (sound bite) after being informed that California will Not re-certify the Dubsels "in question" until they're brought upto legal standards.
He sorta said the new version of the Engineers' Credo:

Power / MPG / Emissions :: Pick Two
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,013 Posts
Considering how VW has passed on Hybrid and tied their entire image to the idea of high MPG clean diesel tech it'll be interesting to see if/how the public's perception changes going forward. From what they've said the 2015 and newer models use a different engine with Urea injection so they're likely, possibly, maybe actually clean. Even if the new cars are as advertised, will VW's brand take a big hit and sales drop? I hope so, they deserve it!
VW and Audi. And, possible, Porsche! The reputation of these brands are in the trash container.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,893 Posts
VW rigged tests on 2.8 million cars in Germany, Berlin says
http://www.autonews.com/article/20150925/COPY01/309259927

"WOLFSBURG, Germany (Reuters) -- Volkswagen rigged emission tests on about 2.8 million diesel vehicles in Germany, German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt said on Friday, nearly six times as many as it has admitted to falsifying in the United States."

""It's now clear that vehicles in Germany are affected by these manipulations. Based on our current knowledge they are vehicles with 2.0-liter and 1.6-liter diesel engines," Dobrindt told Germany's Bundestag lower house of parliament.

Dobrindt also said there was a possibility of 1.2-liter diesel engines being affected too."
 
41 - 60 of 275 Posts
Top