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Is this what a LincStang will compete with?


When Lincoln offers the Lincoln coupe in a few years, which could be based on a next gen Mustang platform, it could be that the 2016 Audi A5 would be the luxury market competition.



The current Mustang has the size and proportions, but is missing the drivetrain technology that puts it on par with Audi's luxury model.

Which is an odd situation, where the Mustang is the only Ford 'car' that offers standard RWD that is standard on all luxury models at the mid level, but it 'currently' lacks the availability of AWD of any kind. AWD that's now available on a Focus model.

My expectation is that Ford engineering will find a way to remedy this. I remember early at the new Mustang launch, that Ford stated that the 'new' platform that the New Mustang rides on can be used for other applications. And a Lincoln coupe could also be where Lincoln more appropriately brings performance to Lincoln.
 

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Is this what a LincStang will compete with?


When Lincoln offers the Lincoln coupe in a few years, which could be based on a next gen Mustang platform, it could be that the 2016 Audi A5 would be the luxury market competition.



The current Mustang has the size and proportions, but is missing the drivetrain technology that puts it on par with Audi's luxury model.

Which is an odd situation, where the Mustang is the only Ford 'car' that offers standard RWD that is standard on all luxury models at the mid level, but it 'currently' lacks the availability of AWD of any kind. AWD that's now available on a Focus model.

My expectation is that Ford engineering will find a way to remedy this. I remember early at the new Mustang launch, that Ford stated that the 'new' platform that the New Mustang rides on can be used for other applications. And a Lincoln coupe could also be where Lincoln more appropriately brings performance to Lincoln.
IMHO a better idea would be to use the Stang platform for a compact sedan like the 3 series/C class
The MKZ is more like a ES so both models can coexist.
 

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Neither the A5 nor S5 are really performance coupes so they should be easy targets. I would like to see a LincStang have more power than the little over 300HP of the S5, but at the same time I'm not looking for a M6 competitor. My perfect LincStang would be a powerful, comfortable, great driving car of similar size to the S5, but would be a true Mark IX! I think it has to be more athletic than the Mark VII and Mark VIII, but it shouldn't even try to be a track star!

Luxury and style first, performance that exceeds to desires of 90% of buyers.
 

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Neither the A5 nor S5 are really performance coupes so they should be easy targets. I would like to see a LincStang have more power than the little over 300HP of the S5, but at the same time I'm not looking for a M6 competitor. My perfect LincStang would be a powerful, comfortable, great driving car of similar size to the S5, but would be a true Mark IX! I think it has to be more athletic than the Mark VII and Mark VIII, but it should even try to be a track star!

Luxury and style first, performance that exceeds to desires of 90% of buyers.
Excellent comment. I completely agree.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
:thumb:
tho just-imho
LincStang sportsedan oughta target the Jag XE & Tesla III
+/less-so the more usual susp3cts
& the coupecabrio be closer to the 6ers
That's what I would hope, but Lincoln keeps being very clear about NOT being a performance brand, but 'quiet luxury' with powerful engines. Then I thought about Lincoln's focus on going after the largest market segments, and with the A5, Audi has already paved the way, especially with the Chinese market as a clear priority.
 

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Neither the A5 nor S5 are really performance coupes so they should be easy targets. I would like to see a LincStang have more power than the little over 300HP of the S5, but at the same time I'm not looking for a M6 competitor. My perfect LincStang would be a powerful, comfortable, great driving car of similar size to the S5, but would be a true Mark IX! I think it has to be more athletic than the Mark VII and Mark VIII, but it shouldn't even try to be a track star!

Luxury and style first, performance that exceeds to desires of 90% of buyers.
Perhaps the Lincstang should be a production MKR. Having 4-doors would definitely further differentiate it from the Mustang.


Think of it as a Lincoln version of the CLS...

...or 6-series Gran Coupe
 

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Mercury C557
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^ imho that'd be just-fine-thank-you
BUT
not for
- a LincStang
- targeting the "Highest Volume Lux segment" ( = 3er & friends)
&
AGREE it needs a 4door sportsedan
YET
90% of a coupe-cabrio is already in production as the MusStang, kinda odd to waste that

That's what I would hope, but Lincoln keeps being very clear about NOT being a performance brand, but 'quiet luxury' with powerful engines. Then I thought about Lincoln's focus on going after the largest market segments, and with the A5, Audi has already paved the way, especially with the Chinese market as a clear priority.
definitely
Lincoln has no reason to join the HP-Wars
nope
never gonna do the Nordschliefe
uh-uh
& imho
a 450hp 3.0EB + around another 150hp of instant-torque e-power for the front wheels is
"adequate"
at least
until the new, smaller v8 comes out with EB & e-power...
...figure with transient overboost, north of 700hp
which
will be even more adequate




192.8 - 112.4 - 74.6 - 53.9 - BMW 6 coupe
190.0 - 111.0 - 75.0 - 56.0 - LincStang Touring
189.9 - 111.0 - 75.0 - 53.0 - LincStang Coupe
188.3 - 107.1 - 75.4 - 54.4 - Mustang S550
185.0 - 111.0 - 75.0 - 56.0 - LincStang SportSedan
184.5 - 110.7 - 73.9 - 56.1 - 2015 BMW 3
182.1 - 108.3 - 73.0 - 54.0 - Audi A5
175.9 - 103.2 - 75.7 - 51.5 - Jaguar F-Type crossreference
 

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If they do a coupe, it needs to be a true full-size Continental Mark that's based on whatever the Continental sedan is based on (don't feel like getting into the 'D6' or 'CD6' rumors). In Lincoln's case, there's no sense in making specialty vehicles like coupes in several different sizes. Coupes just don't sell like they used to. It would be better to have one excellent specialty coupe with a really great heritage. Mark Series is about style, comfort, and opulence. RWD obviously isn't completely necessary, and even a FWD one would look as good or better than the Mark VIII, which had terrible proportions for a RWD car!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
^
192.8 - 112.4 - 74.6 - 53.9 - BMW 6 coupe
190.0 - 111.0 - 75.0 - 56.0 - LincStang Touring
189.9 - 111.0 - 75.0 - 53.0 - LincStang Coupe
188.3 - 107.1 - 75.4 - 54.4 - Mustang S550
185.0 - 111.0 - 75.0 - 56.0 - LincStang SportSedan
184.5 - 110.7 - 73.9 - 56.1 - 2015 BMW 3
182.1 - 108.3 - 73.0 - 54.0 - Audi A5
175.9 - 103.2 - 75.7 - 51.5 - Jaguar F-Type crossreference
That's why I put the Mustang and Audi A5 together, since they almost share the same wheelbase, which should offer similar interior packaging sizes. That platform for a Lincoln coupe would also offerer economies of scale with Mustang being the #1 selling sports car in the world.

I would think if Lincoln offered a 3 series competitor with an extended Mustang wheelbase at 110/111 inches, there would also need to be a Ford performance model to justify it. But with the MKZ with a 112 inch wheelbase, that might be what becomes as close to a 3-series competitor that Lincoln would do.



Lincoln has plenty of room to tighten up the dimensions on the MKZ, especially at the rear end and smooth out the design. Because it will be a smaller, tighter more agile MKZ that will bring in the under 40 consumer. The sub 40 group really do not want to be driving around in their parents Camry equivalent.



MB has done a nice job with holding on to the luxury while adding more sport to the C-Class to be competitive. Because they know it's cross shopped with the 3-Series. But MB offers more luxury, while still offering a agile ride. This should be where Lincoln goes with a New MKZ. And let the New Continental offer the full size luxury consumer what they are looking for. While a luxury LincStang coupe and convertible brings in more sub 40 along with 40+ at upper trim levels.

All along, I didn't think Ford did all the little detail work on the Mustang for just the Mustang's sake. That super fast electric top along with available magnetic ride, has a LincStang convertible at upper trim levels targeting MB



I think MB missed the mark with the new SL. And this could be where Lincoln gain ground in the luxury convertible market. Lincoln just needs a convertible hard top and top notch safety.
 

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Mercury C557
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...I would think if Lincoln offered a 3 series competitor with an extended Mustang wheelbase at 110/111 inches, there would also need to be a Ford performance model to justify it. But with the MKZ with a 112 inch wheelbase, that might be what becomes as close to a 3-series competitor that Lincoln would do.

[img http://www.2016fordfuturecars2017.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2016-Lincoln-MKZ-hybrid-side.jpg /img]
[img http://new2016cars.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/2016-Mercedes-C-Class-side.jpg /img]

[img http://images.dealer.com/ddc/vehicles/2016/Mercedes-Benz/SL-Class/Convertible/color/Polar White-149-227,228,232-640-en_US.jpg /img]...
thing is
a FWD-based 112" wlb allows MUCH more interior room = bigger car
than a RWD with same/close wlb (see how short overhangs are on the 3er-types) &
Look at the '''prestige gap''' of 'wasted' space on the C-clash
WHICH gives 50/50 balance INSTEAD of interior room.
So
Z & LincStang with similar wlbs are Not similar otherwise

&
how many seats does an SL have?
quick-googling dimensions tells me only 2 real ones


If they do a coupe, it needs to be a true full-size Continental Mark that's based on whatever the Continental sedan is based on (don't feel like getting into the 'D6' or 'CD6' rumors). In Lincoln's case, there's no sense in making specialty vehicles like coupes in several different sizes. Coupes just don't sell like they used to. It would be better to have one excellent specialty coupe with a really great heritage.
Mark Series is about...
...Z, X, and C
sorry, N.R,
I need a decade or so change my recent perception of MK

some years ago (on BON) we talked about 2 cars built off (whatever) Continental platform,
one more formal, one more swoopy
(in the Mission too)
But
they-then & I mho think something sorta CLS (or now Panamera) would sell much better than a large 2-door
+
there IS one 2-door already waiting in the partsbin which isn't going away...
...so a large one for Lincoln means double expense
 

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Great post. I've long been in favor of a 4-door LincStang but it seems a little late in the platform cycle now. The inability to option AWD on the current platform will depress sales among those who feel they need it but a RWD/AWD Lincoln in the current and upcoming design language would be sweet indeed. Ford has to know that the days of engineering an exclusive chassis for one car model is over.

Also, there's nothing that suggests that a small aftermarket culture that can satisfy the performance/appearance crowd couldn't surface around Lincoln. More Alpina or Brabus than SVO, AMG, M. Wider wheels, lower ground clearance, flared fenders and spoilers/splitters would be a welcome sight on a nicely proportioned RWD Lincoln-of-the-future. I can even see the MKC and MKX benefitting from performance/appearance mods right now. They wouldn't be your grandfather's Lincolns.

One can only hope that there is a small unofficial skunk-works at Lincoln secretly devising ways to encourage and support aftermarket entrepreneurs.
 

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My expectation is that Ford engineering will find a way to remedy this. I remember early at the new Mustang launch, that Ford stated that the 'new' platform that the New Mustang rides on can be used for other applications. And a Lincoln coupe could also be where Lincoln more appropriately brings performance to Lincoln.
Having an AWD Lincoln would be a great differentiator from the RWD Mustang. If they're going to do a Lincstang, I'd want to see Mustang stay RWD-only.
 

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Lincoln will come with an elegant Mark, not with a 'stang.
The aftermarket will offer an 'upgrade to vs the Jaguars'.
Lincoln's place has been stamped as non-competitive in
top speed - it will be fast
acceleration - it will be quick
ride - it will corner AND be comfortable
silence - the golden will be delivered
Capris through Mexico - not this time.
(IMHO)
 

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I don't see a LincStang happening. I don't see any Lincoln coupe in the near future.

What I would like to see is the next generation Mustang platform become much lighter and slightly smaller, and a new Thunderbird from a stretched version of that platform (be it a coupe or 4-door).
 

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I don't see a LincStang happening. I don't see any Lincoln coupe in the near future.

What I would like to see is the next generation Mustang platform become much lighter and slightly smaller, and a new Thunderbird from a stretched version of that platform (be it a coupe or 4-door).
GM's Alpha platform is celebrated for it's class leading weight so given the Camaro SS is less than 50lbs lighter than the Mustang GT I wonder just how much weight could really be shaved? The structure has to be stiff, and it has to meet crash regulations, without going to more exotic, expensive materials I'm thinking we're unlikely to see great reductions in weight. I was surprised to see the current Vette weights over 3500lbs so with the Mustang GT being a little over 200lbs heavier, made of steel and with it being a larger four seater how do you get much lower without raising the price out of pony car territory?

Again, Alpha is celebrated as being world class in terms of weight and structure and the Camaro SS is barely lighter than the GT, this is just the new normal I guess.
 

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GM's Alpha platform is celebrated for it's class leading weight so given the Camaro SS is less than 50lbs lighter than the Mustang GT I wonder just how much weight could really be shaved? The structure has to be stiff, and it has to meet crash regulations, without going to more exotic, expensive materials I'm thinking we're unlikely to see great reductions in weight. I was surprised to see the current Vette weights over 3500lbs so with the Mustang GT being a little over 200lbs heavier, made of steel and with it being a larger four seater how do you get much lower without raising the price out of pony car territory?

Again, Alpha is celebrated as being world class in terms of weight and structure and the Camaro SS is barely lighter than the GT, this is just the new normal I guess.
The difference in advertised base manual weights (SS vs GT) is only 35lbs. That is far too small an amount given two different (albeit closely) sized vehicles to assess any supreme benefactors in terms of chassis advantages. I am certain given the large amount of CAE analysis for both structures, that they are both within spitting distance of each other in terms of results. And thus, any small differences in results rides nearly entirely on critical factors like suspension design and setup, driveline, powertrain, tires, tuning, gearing, track or weather conditions, driver input, etc.
 

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GM's Alpha platform is celebrated for it's class leading weight so given the Camaro SS is less than 50lbs lighter than the Mustang GT I wonder just how much weight could really be shaved? The structure has to be stiff, and it has to meet crash regulations, without going to more exotic, expensive materials I'm thinking we're unlikely to see great reductions in weight. I was surprised to see the current Vette weights over 3500lbs so with the Mustang GT being a little over 200lbs heavier, made of steel and with it being a larger four seater how do you get much lower without raising the price out of pony car territory?

Again, Alpha is celebrated as being world class in terms of weight and structure and the Camaro SS is barely lighter than the GT, this is just the new normal I guess.
While Gt Mustang and SS Camaro are close, it's the other variations that show up the difference
between the two more clearly, the 2.0T LT1 is 3345 lbs, approx 200 lbs lighter than Ecoboost
so I'm left thinking that that the 2.0T may beat Ecoboost The V6 Mustang is about 100 lbs
heavier and about 30 hp shy of the V6 Camaro, and nearly a second slower.
 

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While Gt Mustang and SS Camaro are close, it's the other variations that show up the difference
between the two more clearly, the 2.0T LT1 is 3345 lbs, approx 200 lbs lighter than Ecoboost
so I'm left thinking that that the 2.0T may beat Ecoboost The V6 Mustang is about 100 lbs
heavier and about 30 hp shy of the V6 Camaro, and nearly a second slower.
I had to double check those numbers, and you are right on the I4 weights. Interesting. I mean, obviously it's not just engine weight that is the contributor, as the engines themselves are both essentially about the same size, aluminum, twin cam, single turbo, etc. So it must mostly be how they are packaged that makes up most of that weight, I think. I4 in Camaro is base, where Mustang is an upgrade. Or not. Mustang still undercuts it in price. I am curious how sales will pan out for both.
 
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