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FIN Moderator
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I don't think a RWD midsize MKS would sell any better. There's just too many players on the field.

There's still a market for $50k full-size sedans, but they just need to look good. That's what's wrong with the MKS, RLX, and XTS.
 

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I don't think a RWD midsize MKS would sell any better. There's just too many players on the field.

There's still a market for $50k full-size sedans, but they just need to look good. That's what's wrong with the MKS, RLX, and XTS.
not RWD.....I am expecting it to be a FWD-AWD vehicle but with RWD proportions (to look like the XJ) ala A6
 

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Do you mean 'A8'? The MKZ is closest in size with the A6. MKS will stay a full-sized sedan. It just won't cost as much as an A8.
true the Z is closest in size with the A6 but I think it is more a A4 competitor than a A6! and a A8 is like a S class and 7 series (more than a MKS in tech and everything, the only thing that is the same is size) that is why I would like to see a MKS that can compete with the A6 rather than a RLX type of car
 

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Mercury C557
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^ if Lincoln wants to do a different A6 competitor, Fine
but they can't use the "MKS" for it**
&
should definitely Not ignore having an A8/7er/S-class alternative


I don't think a RWD midsize MKS would sell any better. There's just too many players on the field.

There's still a market for $50k full-size sedans, but they just need to look good. That's what's wrong with the MKS, RLX, and XTS.
per my Build-Your-Own price, the current MKS runs about $43-60k
and not to copy but for reference, the CT6 will start around $69-72k
my nextgen MKS(wic)replacement might-mostly range $55-75k
which
imho would be rather easy with a SuperEnergi model


** edit
which it seems won't be used for anything in the future anyway
 

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FIN Moderator
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true the Z is closest in size with the A6 but I think it is more a A4 competitor than a A6! and a A8 is like a S class and 7 series (more than a MKS in tech and everything, the only thing that is the same is size) that is why I would like to see a MKS that can compete with the A6 rather than a RLX type of car
The MKZ competes with the A4 in terms of price. The MKS competes with the A6 in terms of price. Lincoln is a value brand, and it's been that way for decades. It's possible Ford could be planning to slowly push Lincoln into a higher level, but I don't think that's the case. There aren't any good value, mid-range brands anymore, and I believe that's the only market Lincoln can realistically compete in. It's important for challenger brands to find their niche/calling.

per my Build-Your-Own price, the current MKS runs about $43-60k
and not to copy but for reference, the CT6 will start around $69-72k
my nextgen MKS(wic)replacement might-mostly range $55-75k
which
imho would be rather easy with a SuperEnergi model
I don't expect to see the next MKS' starting price to rise over $15k.

Do you really believe Cadillac will price the CT6 that low?!? The delusional executives at GM are already saying it's a technological wonder (doubt it!), and I bet they want to charge a ridiculous amount for it.
 

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Mercury C557
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^ short answer, N.R. = Yes

there's still the CT7,8,9 coming
& I don't want to believe that SOMEone at Cadillac didn't get some sense beaten into them by the ELR snafu;
at least for advertising purposes

altho
it won't surprise me if most CT6's on the dealers' lots are $80k and up ... at first


N.R. said:
I don't expect to see the next MKS' starting price to rise over $15k.
likewise
the (wic) could have a bait-n-switch basic-base model...at first ($49k?)
&
$55k is only $12k over the current base (which afaik NO one buys or SEES on most lots)
 

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FIN Moderator
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^ short answer, N.R. = Yes

there's still the CT7,8,9 coming
& I don't want to believe that SOMEone at Cadillac didn't get some sense beaten into them by the ELR snafu;
at least for advertising purposes

altho
it won't surprise me if most CT6's on the dealers' lots are $80k and up ... at first
This is GM we're talkin' about, though.

I'm not really a huge fan of turning non-luxury/tarnished luxury brands into true luxury brands. It's a difficult thing to accomplish. It takes lots of time and consistency to do. Having the perfect pedigree is important and ideal to discerning luxury buyers. When you build semi-luxury cars for decades, it's hard to get people to change their perception. A beaten up Town Car or Fleetwood with a crappy landau roof, worn out suspension, and 25-inch rims is what I see on the road every now and then. Those cars represent their respective brands on the road. These were never true luxury cars to begin with, but that's the point. That's why I had proposed a Continental division revival. It's just better and easier to start off clean sometimes.
 

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The MKZ competes with the A4 in terms of price. The MKS competes with the A8 in terms of price. Lincoln is a value brand, and it's been that way for decades. It's possible Ford could be planning to slowly push Lincoln into a higher level, but I don't think that's the case. There aren't any good value, mid-range brands anymore, and I believe that's the only market Lincoln can realistically compete in. It's important for challenger brands have to find their niche/calling.
.
it is a value brand but sorry, there is no way a MKS can compete with the A8.......the A8-S class are flagship sedans, the MKS is not IMHO.
Also remember this video:
Lincoln target first the midsize germans not the fullsize
 

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FIN Moderator
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it is a value brand but sorry, there is no way a MKS can compete with the A8.......the A8-S class are flagship sedans, the MKS is not IMHO.
Also remember this video:
Lincoln target first the midsize germans not the fullsize
Sorry, I meant A6. LOL I fixed it.

Damn you, alphanumeric nomenclature!
 

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Mercury C557
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me said:
I don't want to believe that SOMEone at Cadillac didn't get some sense beaten into them by the ELR snafu;
you said:
This is GM we're talkin' about, though.
umm ... a janitor? :D
an intern? :D

tho
imho with MB-Bentley-RR prices,
upto to $100k, even 150 is just high premium/attainable Lux
(think we're almost ready to re-open one of the Continental-or-equivalent themes)
 

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FIN Moderator
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umm ... a janitor? :D
an intern? :D


tho
imho with MB-Bentley-RR prices,
upto to $100k, even 150 is just high premium/attainable Lux
(think we're almost ready to re-open one of the Continental-or-equivalent themes)
Probably so! :lmao:

GM and Ford could axe Lincoln and Cadillac and some entrepreneur with connections could start a brand called "Leland". It would combine the best of Cadillac and Lincoln..... I think Sal Collaziano had this in mind.
 

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Mercury C557
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^ imho it'd clear the way for TESLA to offer "bit-nicer-than" versions to tackle Lux...

...they *are* intro'ing an AWD version of their S next week


I like the first version MUCH better
nruggiero said:
The MKZ competes with the A4 in terms of price. The MKS competes with the A8 in terms of price. Lincoln is a value brand, and it's been that way for decades. It's possible Ford could be planning to slowly push Lincoln into a higher level, but I don't think that's the case. There aren't any good value, mid-range brands anymore, and I believe that's the only market Lincoln can realistically compete in. It's important for challenger brands have to find their niche/calling.
tho agree the MKS's price is not there yet/so far
but for overall SIZE

maybe someday I'll find Bloggin's phraseology for the Best explanation
(I know I copied it to Mission:Lincoln)


Jose said:
...I still think if MK# would be better than the current letters or it would be as bad as Caddy XT and CT
well NOW it would sure LOOK like they were copying Cadillac

+
there's no reason to.
Did you see the BONquote saying Lincoln is going to do both ABsoup and NAMES?
 

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Even with its age, I'm surprised a car based on a Volvo did so poorly.
The D3 platform of the MKS was developed from the P2 platform of the 1998 Volvo S80. It's based on a 16 year old platform, this was over a decade before there was such a thing as a small-overlap crash test.

Even if the MKS is a decade younger than the 1st gen S80, it and the current F10 BMW 5-series were still both developed years before the small-overlap crash test was introduced.
The MKS was introduced for the 2009MY, the F10 5-series was introduced for the 2010MY (2011MY in the US).

I'm sure the next gen MKS and next gen 5-series will score much higher in the small-overlap crash test.
 

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Even with its age, I'm surprised a car based on a Volvo did so poorly.
Remember, it's an OLD Volvo platform, not designed to meet modern testing criteria. That's a sad commentary on Ford trying to foist ancient technology on the public disguised as a modern, premium/luxury car.
 

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Mercury C557
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Remember, it's an OLD Volvo platform, not designed to meet modern testing criteria. That's a sad commentary on Ford trying to foist ancient technology on the public disguised as a modern, premium/luxury car.
not to pick on you, glyphics, but
[ semi-pet peeve ]
and tho this may seem closer/more reasonable than all the 1990s-and-earlier intra-Lincoln comparos made all-too often...
I really wonder just how many FoMoCo personnel from the start of the D3 Program are still @ Ford???
this^
has to do with anthropomorphize-ing a company with abiding characteristics of an individual human over the years
whereas
I see it as (since many current F-or-L decision-makers have come from working at OTHER Brands);
the F-or-L practices/DNA is a lot like a Second Language for them...
...for many of us fans, the BlueOval could be our mother-tongue

(hope that doesn't come across nasty or too picky - I'm seriously suffering from lack of sleep today
& prone to stream of unconciousness...)


2b2 said:
nruggiero said:
MKZ vs A8/A6 conundrum
tho agree the MKS's price is not there yet/so far
but for overall SIZE

maybe someday I'll find Bloggin's phraseology for the Best explanation
(I know I copied it to Mission:Lincoln)
::
Originally Posted by Bloggin - View Post
...instead of offering 'between' segment vehicles that don't quite fit and confuse consumers when trying to cross shop.
VS
Originally Posted by Bloggin - View Post
...the current MKZ...is a 'between' segment vehicle to catch sales where the 3-series is too small and the 5-Series is too expensive...
 
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