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Every once in a while a muscular middleweight rose up to challenge the Bavarian champ—Audi's exquisitely lunatic B7 RS4 springs to mind—but then BMW's boffins would tweak the formula and wind up back on top. Mercedes' in-house gang of maniacs (aka AMG) has done admirable work on the previous iterations of the C63. But should you find yourself at a track with the choice of the M3 or last-gen C63, we all know which you'll choose. Unless all you care about are burnouts. Other cars were loads of fun, but at the end of the day, those obsessed with all aspects of performance voted BMW. That, however, was yesterday. Today AMG and Cadillac each want a shot at the M3's title. And one—or both—might have padded their gloves with lead.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1507_bmw_m3_vs_cadillac_ats_v_sedan_vs_mercedes_amg_c63_s_comparison/viewall.html#ixzz3iLC4GKfW

The Caddy exceeds the Merc and The Bimmer in 0 to 60, 60 to zero stop, quarter mile, faster lap, complete course. The new ATS-V is faster than the Porsche 911 and Corvette Stingray. And the winner is, of course, the Mercedes!!!!!!
 

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Mercury C557
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in addition to the "first place" kerfluffle
...As you can see, in a straight line, America wins. But when you start turning the wheel … USA still comes out on top...
what hits me is
BMW 3er Loses AGAIN...​
...in a perf.test maybe 2% of owners could notice


the only way I'd want a LincStang IN one of these comparos
is
if the reviewers OWNED their own LS, which they drove to the comparo, and just couldn't shut-up about as:
heck with the track,
I'm so glad I don't have to drive any of those others home​
 

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You will continue to see the Cadillacs lose these competitions until they become better luxury cars.

They are not Pony Cars. They are not Muscle Cars. They are luxury cars first. Thus, they should be the better luxury car, and the better performance car. GM hasn't figured this out yet.
 

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GM is building such good performance cars in their Cadillac brand. But they need to be more well rounded and ditch CUE. The Benz is a more complete package.
 

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Mercury C557
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Without a doubt Caddy is making the best vehicles ever to come out of the US, hopefully it starts making business sense.
I agree, if you are talking about cars and cars are my focus. It's a shame that not one Lincoln production car stirs the heart and it's a shame that Ford has no plan to change that. Mercury made good business sense until it didn't. It's a good thing for Ford that Cadillac botched their pricing-level scheme or Lincoln wouldn't be (barely) outselling them.

At least Cadillac (Varsity) is trying for conquest sales while Ford (Intramural) is still catering to Lincoln customers and what Ford thinks they prefer. Cadillac cars are getting headlines in the motoring press and they are slowly gaining a reputation. In the desirability timeline, reputation comes before cachet. Cachet comes before conquest sales.
 

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You will continue to see the Cadillacs lose these competitions until they become better luxury cars.

They are not Pony Cars. They are not Muscle Cars. They are luxury cars first. Thus, they should be the better luxury car, and the better performance car. GM hasn't figured this out yet.
I would not call a BMW Luxury, inside they are dull, on the outside they are even Duller.
 

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In the desirability timeline, reputation comes before cachet. Cachet comes before conquest sales.
And keeping the lights on and making money comes before all else. Last month Cadillac's sales fell 7%, Lincoln's rose 21%. Conquest sales are great, but Cadillac's old customers are leaving faster than the new ones are coming in, so half the noise we hear in the news is about how Cadillac is tanking. That's great for cachet for sure!
 

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Mercury C557
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I would not call a BMW Luxury, inside they are dull, on the outside they are even Duller.
Agree - basically
except for
- the upper range/trim BMWs: 7, 6, & alomost loaded $50k+ 3s (next)
- if you look at the prices for even the basic ones

...It's a good thing for Ford that Cadillac botched their pricing-level scheme or Lincoln wouldn't be (barely) outselling them.
yup :thumb:

...At least Cadillac (Varsity) is trying for conquest sales while Ford (Intramural) is still catering to Lincoln customers and what Ford thinks they prefer...
Excellent metaphor! :thumb:²

...reputation comes before cachet. Cachet comes before conquest sales.
:thumb:³ &
"...Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering..."
 

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Mercury C557
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And keeping the lights on and making money comes before all else. Last month Cadillac's sales fell 7%, Lincoln's rose 21%. Conquest sales are great, but Cadillac's old customers are leaving faster than the new ones are coming in, so half the noise we hear in the news is about how Cadillac is tanking. That's great for cachet for sure!
:thumb:
in the big thread about Johan's latest appearance/audience @ GMI
someone asked if ANY other autoBIGwig goes out to *explain* how the terrible results are a GoodThing...
...or has to

I've been wondering if Cadillac will have it even harder due to the internet...
...where people can actually find out what going on, beyond any PR spin
 

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And keeping the lights on and making money comes before all else. Last month Cadillac's sales fell 7%, Lincoln's rose 21%. Conquest sales are great, but Cadillac's old customers are leaving faster than the new ones are coming in, so half the noise we hear in the news is about how Cadillac is tanking. That's great for cachet for sure!
I get your point but my main point was this:

It's a shame that not one Lincoln production car stirs the heart ...
 

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Lincoln isn't ready for that.

Just like Cadillac isn't ready for their ATS and CTS sedans.

Ford is doing the very unglamorous thing with Lincoln. They are setting the ground work for a luxury brand. This takes time, people see little of it, and it doesn't make for flashy good press. Until they are a true luxury brand in experience.................... as in the entire experience that you buy into when you buy a luxury car.................. then they are not ready for the whiz bang, Holy **** products with the big price tags.

Cadillac is getting ahead of themselves. They are dumping tons of money into the product, so the cart can lead the horse. At the same time, at the majority of Cadillac stores, the experience is no different than buying a Chevy.

Why can I get personalized brochures from Lincoln, but a link to a pdf file from Cadillac?? Why can I go to my Lincoln store and be treated like a friend and a guest, but get the ol "what is it gonna take to get you into this today" at the Cadillac store...................... and it is also a stand alone, updated store. That is nothing you say?? BS. It is all part of the luxury experience. Lexus didn't get to where they are today on amazing product............... they did so on an amazing experience, which is what luxury is. After all, most luxury cars are only some leather and wood and tech different from the top end of mainstream. Certainly not enough to "pay" for the large dollar difference. What you are buying is the whole package.

Until Cadillac / GM understands that, they will continue to underwhelm. Just wait until the SRX becomes the XT5 and loses all of its label recognition along with a hefty price increase. There will be a lot of boohooing all over GMville.
 
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