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I agree with you.. but what choice did they have other than a minimum update until the new navigator is ready?
I understand what Lincoln was faced with, and in my opinion it is actually less appealing aesthetically, and today as yesterday I personally find no compelling reason to purchase a Navigator. Again my frustration is more of a personal nature being that I as a Lincoln enthusiast can not support Lincoln with my hard earned money in a class that I am as we speak considering for my next vehicle.
 

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At this point Ford is obviously focused more on retaining existing customers rather than the conquest of new customers, and for Lincoln's faithful the 3.5 EB will be a notable upgrade from the boat anchor 5.4 3V.

Can you answer a question for me truthfully? Are you a large luxury SUV purchaser, and do you intend to purchase one in the near future perhaps? Have you ever personally owned a Escalade and/ or Range Rover after visiting Lincoln first to give them yet another chance to earn your business?

Because when conversations center around things like fuel economy in a segment that is much about image, and cache is it is about actual competence it tells me that perhaps there are many who do not understand the buyers who purchase in these segments. A vehicle that is amazingly desirable, and aspirational in spite of or because of a brand's image is what buyers look for in this segment.

An Expedition or a Tahoe at a significant savings can do everything functionally that an Escalade or Navigator can. If you do not understand the intangible appeal that would propel someone to spend $20,000 more for a vehicle with deplorable fuel economy , and no functional benefits over vehicles one or two classes below it would be quite impossible to understand buyers in this segment.
I am not in the market for a big luxury SUV but Ive been driving a 2011 Cadillac Escalade for 6 months and before that I was driving a 2009 QX56 (which I loved). But thats not important. You never gave reason as to why you think it needs a V8, ESPECIALLY considering the V6 is more powerful than the outgoing engine. ESPECIALLY considering the V6 tows 1,000lbs more than the 2015 Escalade, and will get a better EPA rating. So why does it need a V8? Because it sounds good?
 

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I understand what Lincoln was faced with, and in my opinion it is actually less appealing aesthetically, and today as yesterday I personally find no compelling reason to purchase a Navigator. Again my frustration is more of a personal nature being that I as a Lincoln enthusiast can not support Lincoln with my hard earned money in a class that I am as we speak considering for my next vehicle.
Understandable
 

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I am not in the market for a big luxury SUV but Ive been driving a 2011 Cadillac Escalade for 6 months and before that I was driving a 2009 QX56 (which I loved). But thats not important. You never gave reason as to why you think it needs a V8, ESPECIALLY considering the V6 is more powerful than the outgoing engine. ESPECIALLY considering the V6 tows 1,000lbs more than the 2015 Escalade, and will get a better EPA rating. So why does it need a V8? Because it sounds good?
So then you understand that fuel economy in, and of itself is NOT a crucial part of the purchase decision in this segment? For Lincoln's mission with this MCE it does not need a V8, and at this point if it was appealing aesthetically even I a staunch V8 advocate could possibly overlook its omission. Personally I would like to see a revised 6.2 become a SVT , HD, Lincoln exclusive engine, and debut in the all aluminum 2017 Navigator. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an optional Ecoboost but there are many that do desire a top trim level with a powerful V8 as even Mercedes, and Range Rover who offer 6 cylinder variants understand.

I sincerely believe that the money that a notable Lincoln Navigator would print for Lincoln would support a notable budget for Lincoln car development that is needed. With the Autobiography Range Rover reaching a heretofore unheard of $180,000 price a Navigator done with excellence in mind would be a halo, and be amazing profitable which are often quite divergent expectations.
 

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So then you understand that fuel economy in, and of itself is NOT a crucial part of the purchase decision in this segment? For Lincoln's mission with this MCE it does not need a V8, and at this point if it was appealing aesthetically even I a staunch V8 advocate could possibly overlook its omission. Personally I would like to see a revised 6.2 become a SVT , HD, Lincoln exclusive engine, and debut in the all aluminum 2017 Navigator. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an optional Ecoboost but there are many that do desire a top trim level with a powerful V8 as even Mercedes, and Range Rover who offer 6 cylinder variants understand.
While I dont think fuel economy is as much a deal breaker in this segment as it is in others, I do think its more important now than ever. I think people, including those that can afford this trucks are more conscious about when, how, and where they spend they money. People are more afraid of the economy now than before. Luxury buyers, especially ones that buy Lincolns care about their money. Lincolns are cheaper than their competitors and that's one of there selling points. Having better EPA numbers WILL help sell this vehicle. In my opinion...
 

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I sincerely believe that the money that a notable Lincoln Navigator would print for Lincoln would support a notable budget for Lincoln car development that is needed. With the Autobiography Range Rover reaching a heretofore unheard of $180,000 price a Navigator done with excellence in mind would be a halo, and be amazing profitable which are often quite divergent expectations.
You're right but Lincoln can't sell vehicles at that price right now. They just aren't to that point. And I think they are taking the proper steps to get to that point.
 

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While I dont think fuel economy is as much a deal breaker in this segment as it is in others, I do think its more important now than ever. I think people, including those that can afford this trucks are more conscious about when, how, and where they spend they money. People are more afraid of the economy now than before. Luxury buyers, especially ones that buy Lincolns care about their money. Lincolns are cheaper than their competitors and that's one of there selling points. Having better EPA numbers WILL help sell this vehicle. In my opinion...
I agree with you, and as I mentioned the demise of the not notable in any way boat anchor 5.4 3V elicited not one tear shed, and is a secondary concern. When I say not a crucial part of the purchase decision I mean that many who buy in this segment have already in their minds decided that fuel economy is not a primary concern. I for instance had no issues with 13 mpg in my 403 hp Escalade which was wretched excess for a 3 person family when my Range Rover with less horsepower often matched it.

The elephant in the room is the GL which offers a segment leader variant for fuel economy, and a segment leader for power as well with the GL63 AMG. My point being that I think that the all new 2017 Navigator should feature an optional smooth , efficient , and latently powerful V8.
 

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As I suspected it looks much better in these full photos than that zoomed shot of the front end yesterday. I honestly think that it's quite cohesive, and while I'm not all that familiar with the outgoing model, I really do quite like what they've done.
 

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I agree with you, and as I mentioned the demise of the not notable in any way boat anchor 5.4 3V elicited not one tear shed, and is a secondary concern. When I say not a crucial part of the purchase decision I mean that many who buy in this segment have already in their minds decided that fuel economy is not a primary concern. I for instance had no issues with 13 mpg in my 403 hp Escalade which was wretched excess for a 3 person family when my Range Rover with less horsepower often matched it.

The elephant in the room is the GL which offers a segment leader variant for fuel economy, and a segment leader for power as well with the GL63 AMG. My point being that I think that the all new 2017 Navigator should feature an optional smooth , efficient , and latently powerful V8.
I love V8's so I'm here for more of them but I don't think anythings wrong with not having one. Looking at the way things have been going with the downsizing of engines at FoMoCo, I doubt we see a V8 in the next Navigator, especially if its all aluminum. But I guess thats the change of times. I just hope they pull it off and it does more than just compete.
 

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I think this Navi will do well. I'm sure the addition of the super quiet super powerful EB V6 will be an awesome fit for this rig. I'm glad Ford didn't paste tacky fake wood grain all over the place. The interior has a very clean professional look to it.
 

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Germ you never really have positive thoughts about Lincoln... I just realized that. But you do know this is a Ford fan site. Not saying that you have to love everything but you don't have to be so negative. You could be a lot more supportive.
That is his whole reason for even being on this site.

Haters Gonne Hate
Germeezy isn't a hater. He has valid points.

Why is it a bad thing that being fans of Ford, we expect them to come out with good products. The market doesn't lie, Lincoln has a sub par lineup. We were promised by Ford a couple years ago that they were going to turn Lincoln around like they turned Ford around into a world class brand. Sadly, we get the same actions with Lincoln that we have gotten the past decade. They haven't changed their strategy, it seems they are in no rush to update their products or even try hard.

We can't just blindly follow Lincoln. The 2015 F-150 has gotten a brand new steering wheel. IMO it looks great. The 2015 Navigator gets the same steering wheel from the current F-150. Why? Why does the F-150 get a better interior than the Navigator?

I love what Ford is doing with Ford, they are taking risks and trying to put the best product out there. Their entire lineup crushes GM's and Fiat/Chrysler's. Ford is at least competitive or better than the import competition. Why can't they put that same effort into Lincoln and have an American luxury brand that rivals the Germans?

Ford I'm just disappointed that you don't care about Lincoln. Your fans care and they deserve better than what you are giving them.
 

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C00KIE M0NSTER said:
...They haven't changed their strategy, it seems they are in no rush to update their products or even try hard...
...Why can't they put that same effort into Lincoln and have an American luxury brand that rivals the Germans?...
...Ford I'm just disappointed that you don't care about Lincoln...
just-imho
they HAVE changed their strategy
nonetheless
FLincMoCo seems to be still "feeling their way" with Lincoln
^that^
& PayGo

edit: new thought
maybe they're having trouble fighting the urge to jump in whole-hog
and keep reining-in to preserve profitability;
and haven't quite found that balance yet?
(tho what we're seeing reflects their thinking/attitude of some years ago,
Not really what they're up to Now.)



C00KIE M0NSTER said:
...We can't just blindly follow Lincoln...
...Your fans care and they deserve better than what you are giving them.
this I agree with wholeheartedly, C00KIE M0NSTER :thumb:
 

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After the spy pics went around a while ago, I wasn't expecting much of a change in the first place. To me it seems like a very lazy refresh. It's no secret that I HATE the current (3rd gen) Navigator. This 4th gen, doesn't look as bad. I did however expect major changes on the interior though. I read on this blog and a couple of others that the interior was really going to improve. Well, obviously that didn't happen for whatever reason. I doesn't look as good but it still doesn't look good. I can't tell the quality of materials used from the pics but it does look like there is quite a bit of cheap plastic in there. And those air vents look like they're Ford Tempo surplus or something. HOPEFULLY this will hold Lincoln over until they can do a clean sheet, all new one when the next Expedition comes out. Lincoln DESPERATELY needs that if they're still going to keep the Navigator going in the future. Also, does anyone out there know why they're still calling it a Navigator? It seems to me that with this refresh, it would have been a good time to change the name to MKN or MK???
 

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So there it is, like I said, not nearly as bad as that disfigured pic. Not ugly at all, contrary to some water cooler talk. I like how it looks low, wide and stable, unlike the Escalade that goes for a tall stretched look from the front. Nice to see that many like it, some not sure, and of course the usual condemnation from Lincoln from guess who. Holy Effff does that boy ever stop?

I like how the torque has a nice bump both in peak and delivery. The curve on this thing looks so flat. This is a significant bump over the 5.4L and the quiet rush of this engine is right at home in a luxury vehicle. Glad to see they carried over the design theme while also making it completely new and plush. Features galore, CCD suspension, blah blah blah......can't wait to drive what was already the best chassis out there in need of exactly the updates it got.

Congrats Lincoln for recognizing all that.
Did they announce price? Should be same, right?
Certainly far less than Cadillac that offers little more for far more.
 

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Ford I'm just disappointed that you don't care about Lincoln. Your fans care and they deserve better than what you are giving them.
I've asked this question before and no one answered it so I will do it again.

Lincoln is supposed to be the ABSOLUTE BEST that Ford can do. Is the MKZ the ABSOLUTE BEST Ford can do for a mid size? Is the MKS the ABSOLUTE BEST Ford can do a for a full size? Is the Navigator the ABSOLUTE BEST Ford can do for a full size SUV? If so how come the Ford counterparts offer pretty much the same exact features for 10k less? I would not be surprised at all if the Expedition still offers a V8 and all of the features that this new Navi offers.

I get it they are in the process of turning the brand around... **** they have been since 2000. But hey what's another 10-20 years.

No hidden keyless entry keypad, no push button transmission... how hard would it have been to add these?

Also as I stated in the other thread this is the FIRST TIME Lincoln has NOT offered a V8 in it's lineup EVER since 1917. I like the idea of offering the EcoBoost HOWEVER I think it should still have a V8 as an OPTION for those who want it.... it IS a status symbol STILL.
 

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Sorry guys but I agree with germeeze although the engine is the least of its problems. Ecoboost is a great power plant and it will have no problem moving this thing.

My problem is that this is such a mediocre job! I mean a person from another planet would not believe that Lincoln is affiliated with Ford, the brand that everyone is calling the Apple of the automotive industry. Autoblog says that the interior is a combination of leather, wood, and TONS of plastic! In a segment like this that's not acceptable. Like it was said, why a person that is looking to buy a vehicle in this segment opt for the Navi when you have Escalade, Range Rover, GL, and even the Infiniti QX? I'm sorry but I just don't see it.

Pluses? Well theres the ecoboost engine, the wheels are very nice, the parts that are leather and wood are high quality, and I hope that the price is much lower than the competition.

I hope this is a year only refresh I really do.
 

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I must admit, it's a **** of a lot better looking than the outgoing model. However, some families/buyers will prefer the MKC based upon lower price, better fuel economy & no need to tow 9K pounds.In that scenario, the MKC will be a key player in keeping Lincoln in people's minds.
 

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I must admit, it's a **** of a lot better looking than the outgoing model. However, some families/buyers will prefer the MKC based upon lower price, better fuel economy & no need to tow 9K pounds.In that scenario, the MKC will be a key player in keeping Lincoln in people's minds.
Except for some families who need a 3rd row... that leaves this and the MKT *shudders*
 
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