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Discussion Starter #1
I was browsing the MT website and finally we have more concrete information about the new GM/Ford Transverse Nine Speed Transmission. :cool:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/peeking-inside-the-gmford-transverse-nine-speed-automatic/

"There’s been a flurry of recent information released about the new 10-speed automatic that rivals GM and Ford have co-developed for longitudinal engines as it gets readied for production in the Chevy Camaro ZL1, Ford F-150 EcoBoost 3.5, and Ford Raptor, but Chevy’s unveiling of the Equinox provided our first real look at that joint venture’s transverse nine-speed, which GM will dub the 9T50 (with those last two digits varying to connote different torque ratings in the future).

According to GM transmission expert Scott Kline, the goal was to package nine ratios in roughly the design envelope of the former six-speed automatic while retaining that transmission’s on-axis design (which keeps all the planetary gears aligned with the engine crankshaft). This design “stacks” the planetary sets in line, whereas the ZF nine-speed nests several of them in a package that is shorter in length but much wider. To help reduce the overall length of the GM/Ford gear train while adding another full planetary gearset, the system of clutching for first and reverse gear was completely redesigned. The six-speed transmissions utilized two clutches—a fat conventional multiplate clutch and a slimmer “sprag”-type one-way clutch that freewheels in one direction but locks up against any effort to spin it the other way. What the team came up with was an ingenious “selectable one-way clutch” that looks like two slim sprag clutches stacked together, one of which gets a control mechanism to keep the little sprag’s feet collapsed when freewheeling in one direction if desired. Releasing these sprag feet allows the clutch to lock like a multiplate clutch resisting motion in both directions.

The latest generation of smart torque converter used in this transmission employs both a spring-loaded mass damper to counteract engine vibrations under certain driving conditions when the converter is locked and “micro slip,” tiny bursts of unlocking that permit brief 10–60-rpm speed differentials to eliminate vibrations at engine speeds where the normal mass damper doesn’t work. This greatly broadens the operating conditions under which the transmission can smoothly lock the converter (including much of first gear operation), greatly increasing efficiency.


To support auto start/stop there is a large oil-pressure accumulator that is “powered” by a gigantic coil spring when the engine is off, providing sufficient pressure to the first-gear clutches when restarting. The other various clutches controlling the rest of the gear changes are powered by “linear force solenoids” that power their various valves directly, instead of via a boost valve circuit. And to keep the transmission squeaky clean and free of damaging debris, it includes a second filter on the pressure side of the oil pump; most trannies only filter on the suction side where oil is picked up from the pan. The filters are sized to never need replacing.

The 9T50 is expected to make its first appearance next summer paired with the Chevy Equinox’s 2.0-liter turbo-four and eventually perpetuate throughout the transverse-engine lineup."

Hopefully we'll see this new transverse nine speed transmission on all Ford and Lincoln front/awd vehicles soon! :thumb:
 

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They call it co developed, but GM took the lead on design and engineering. Ford had some input up front. Just as Ford took the lead on the 10 spd. Not sure why the timelines seem off for Ford to get it. That might be wrong.
Hopefully the timelines are wrong as it seems very unfair that the tranny that Ford took lead on is now rolling out but the one that GM lead on won't be arriving until 2 years from now.

There's no way that the Contiental should have been launched with the old 6 speed. From a numbers stand point it's not that important but as a image builder and bearer for the next phase of Lincoln, the Contiental is VERY important and launching it with a transmission that 10+ years old and at least a couple years behind the competition just doesn't make sense.

Think about this for a second: what genuine Luxury automaker offers vehicles with only 6 speeds??, NONE. Once again unfair to Ford that they will have to wait such an extended period of time before an up to date transmission is ready
 

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imho the 6-speed could actually be a bit of Tried-to-avoid-it-LUCK for Lincolnl :angel

considering the BoonDoggle-imho grail-search for autonomous vehicles

on top of the new-for-new's-sake Chryco/ZF 8-speed that does NOT use all its gears

AND may Not even be of use *IF* automomy ever happens

&
we get the mfgs WASTING their time-effort-budgets while TRICKING buyers into paying for steak-free gotta-have-it SIZZLE-ONLY

...+ I have a feeling the GM-provided 9-speed has serious problems (maybe deliberate) and THAT is why Fomoco is taking so long = REdeveloping
:facepalm:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Dds010 makes a solid point, too. Hopefully, Dds010, 2b2, and Wingsnut, the Lincoln Motor Company preferred to err on the side of the proven reliability of the tried but true 6 speed automatic, rather than placing trust in currently produced 8 and 9 nine speed automatic transmissions with reputations of proven unreliability. On a slightly different note, a recent test drive of the Ford Fusion Sport at C & D, revealed a 5.1 second 0-60mph time with the 2.7 liter, 325hp, 380 lb-ft torque V6. With 0-60 times like those for the Fusion, it may indicate that the Lincoln MKZ and the Lincoln Continental equipped with the 3.0 (Lincoln only, 400hp, 400 lb-ft) V6, torque vectoring and the 6 speed automatic transmission may, place broader smiles on our faces than we think. :angel

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/tested-2017-ford-fusion-sport-review
 

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Dds010 makes a solid point, too. Hopefully, Dds010, 2b2, and Wingsnut, the Lincoln Motor Company preferred to err on the side of the proven reliability of the tried but true 6 speed automatic, rather than placing trust in currently produced 8 and 9 nine speed automatic transmissions with reputations of proven unreliability. On a slightly different note, a recent test drive of the Ford Fusion Sport at C & D, revealed a 5.1 second 0-60mph time with the 2.7 liter, 325hp, 380 lb-ft torque V6. With 0-60 times like those for the Fusion, it may indicate that the Lincoln MKZ and the Lincoln Continental equipped with the 3.0 (Lincoln only, 400hp, 400 lb-ft) V6, torque vectoring and the 6 speed automatic transmission may, place broader smiles on our faces than we think. :angel

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/tested-2017-ford-fusion-sport-review
While the Fusion sport did post a 5.1 time, it's also worth noting that with 400hp/tq that the Contiental/MKZ may not post much quicker times as the may be dialed up a lot to not stress the outdated 6speed, which may be why some posters are reporting the Contiental not feelings as fast as they anticipated. C&D even reports that the Fusion sport itself has some serious tq .management so I can only imagine for the Lincolns. Just another reason why the 9 speed not being ready sucks for Ford.

That's why I didn't want them developing transmissions with GM. YES it saved a major amount of money BUT the downside is that GM could mess it up or be late with development, which looks like exactly what happened.

So ford has tremendously good engines 2.7 & 3.0 bit their true potential cannot be reached because they have to be dialed backed because of the transmissions
 

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The 9 speed should be about a year from now, maybe slightly longer.
GM launches in about a year. Is a few months really worth all the drama and concern.

And NO, Lincoln should not have waited.
That's not how they typically do things.
It's all in the timing. If the Continental was to have the 9-speed at launch, it would have been delayed until MY2019 at the earliest. The 10-speed in the highest volume vehicle has to launch first in the current F-150, then in refreshed Mustang and Next Gen Expedition/Navigator.

Ford has to get those new launched underway before launching another new transmission in next gen models.
 

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Three for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne


GM plans 10 models with 9-speed transmission by ’17
TheDetroitNews

Michael Wayland, December 6, 2016


...four for its Chevrolet brand...
...2017 Malibu...$32,000 — $10,000 more than the standard L model with 1.5-liter turbo...
...followed next year by the 2017 Chevrolet Cruze diesel with the 1.6-liter diesel engine...
...2018 Chevrolet Equinox with available 2.0-liter turbo...

...GM declined to disclose what models outside of Chevrolet will feature the new transmission. But GM confirmed it is compatible on other vehicles with the same platforms of the three announced vehicles. Meagher said a fourth Chevrolet vehicle with the transmission will “be announced very soon.”...

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...GM transmission
quote:

GM's new 9-speed has all sorts of patents on it because they managed to get 9 forward gears while using about half the parts one would expect in a transmission with that many speeds. I don't understand the full technical ramifications of what GM did, but apparently it is fairly groundbreaking transmission design. It's seriously tiny as far as transmissions go. Physically, there's no reason they couldn't fit it in cars as small as the Spark or Adam...
 

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:thumb: @hbmf3 ^
I still need to learn WTHeck a "selectable 1-way clutch" is
+ "The new 9-speed yielded GM 60 new patents and required 800 prototypes"... I fear they needed MORE
&
crossreferences:
&
Last year's GM/collaboration 9-speed transmission... thread in the CompetitionNews section

.
 

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Discussion Starter #16

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Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

GM makes superb transmissions so I'm very glad Ford is taking advantage of their expertise, it has been sorely needed. I have never seen a glowing review of a Ford transmission like this in my life and it has always been the achilles heal in every Ford or Lincoln I've owned, although they have worked miracles on most of the 6-speeds combined with EcoBoost.
 

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Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

Where is the review? There is barely a couple brief paragraphs. Do you have to find a sub link or something?

And let's not blow too much smoke up GM's ass, while simultaneously condemning every single Ford transmission in history. They both have made less than stellar pieces that were thin skinned in the past as well as workhorse units. Overall, I would conclude that GM has done better, but let's not get carried away. The Ford engineered 10 speed appears to be a great unit too. It has done well with GM's calibration in the Camaro Z28, which is far easier than a truck with 7 shift modes. I understand the truck to be a nightmare in calibration. But when it appears with Mustang, it should also receive praise. One hopes anyway.
 

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Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

Where is the review? There is barely a couple brief paragraphs. Do you have to find a sub link or something?

And let's not blow too much smoke up GM's ass, while simultaneously condemning every single Ford transmission in history. They both have made less than stellar pieces that were thin skinned in the past as well as workhorse units. Overall, I would conclude that GM has done better, but let's not get carried away. The Ford engineered 10 speed appears to be a great unit too. It has done well with GM's calibration in the Camaro Z28, which is far easier than a truck with 7 shift modes. I understand the truck to be a nightmare in calibration. But when it appears with Mustang, it should also receive praise. One hopes anyway.
Here is a little more of a review...

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/12/we-try-out-gms-new-9-speed-auto-in-the-2017-chevrolet-malibu/
 
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