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Discussion Starter #21
Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

It's great the co-development and recent introductions of the 10 speed automatic (led by Ford) and 9 speed automatic (led by GM), will insure American automobiles are equipped with first class transmissions. We've already received multiple positive reviews of the 10 speed in the F150s and the Camaro. There have been few reviews so far, about the nine speed automatic, however what we're beginning to hear is promising, and it's good to see American car manufacturers demonstrating the ability to produce world class products again! :) I can't wait for the unveiling of more Ford and Lincoln models (i.e. 2018 Mustang :cool:) equipped with the new transmissions!
 

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Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

Any idea on when Ford or Lincoln might see this transmission? Doesn't look like any 2018 Fords are getting it.
 

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Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

Ford has been very quiet about their use of the 9 speed. I spoke with a Lincoln rep a few months ago and he told me the first ones to get the 9 speed would be 4 cylinder Fusions, MKZs and Edges. I thought maybe the 2018s would get it but it doesn't appear that they will.
 

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Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

I wonder...
New 9-Speed Pushes Tech Limit, GM Says
WardsAuto
| James M. Amend | Dec 7, 2016


...As for now, a fourth model also will receive the 9-speed soon, perhaps on a redesigned GMC Terrain midsize CUV. GM expects 10 vehicle models to use it by the end of 2017. It is built at GM’s San Luis Potosi, Mexico, manufacturing operation after a recent $131 million investment to accommodate its production...​
if Ford's main plan was for vehicles built in their cancelled San Luis Potosi factory?
 

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Not sure but a couple of the ratios are so close that another shift would be ridiculous. High torque engines like the twin turbo V6s do not benefit from so many shifts like lower powered engines do.
 

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Mercury C557
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Re: Peeking Inside the FORD Transverse 9(EIGHT?)Speed Transmission

crossreference: the AutomotiveNews article in the "Ford Invests $350 Million" thread

based-on/afaik
1.
-- the ZF 9-speed must have lousy control-software (gear hunting & lurching)
-- Ford has been GREAT at control-software (first/smoothest electro-gas switching)
-- maybe the 9speeds NEED a bit more control-sensors ($) for smoothness?
2.
so since Ford will make both 8 & 9 speed versions work well (eventually/before intro)
-- long time ago I read in multi-articles that any # over 8 is just prestige/one-upmanship
-- if there's a slight benefit to 9 & it's used for heavier variants (Awd/Lincolns),
-- their mpg can equal the lighter,cheaper ones with 8...
-- while helping to keep the base (Fwd) models' prices down *&* with a factual reason


meanwhile...
FullSpeed Ahead with the FORD-developed 10 speed @ GM
GMauthority
— Sean Szymkowski — May 24, 2017

CARB Certification Shows All GM SUVs On Deck To Receive 10-Speed Automatic Transmission...
.
 

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merged 2 tranny threads in order to post some conflicting+conflicted August article Links/blurbs...


AutoWeek: "...weirder shifting"
Cons: Nine-speed automatic needs some software work...
**


Car&Driver: "smooth transmission"
...nine-speed...gives its powertrain a level of refinement befitting Cadillac, never mind GMC. Shifts are almost imperceptible, although aggressive driving can sometimes cause a bit of jerkiness on multigear downshifts. The new transmission helps the V-6 Traverse pick up 3 mpg in its EPA combined ratings...


ConsumerReports: "unobtrusive, nine-speed automatic transmission"
...happy to see that the transmission is engaged with a traditional gear selector—no confusing alternative shifter here... ...with a six-cylinder engine, all-wheel drive...



**plus some UNverified HEAR-SAY from an AW comment:
Autoblog ("The nine-speed transmission was pleasantly surprising. Unlike the nine-speed in the Honda Pilot or various Jeeps, this one never felt like it was hunting for the perfect gear.")
MotorTrend ("There’s never the sense of constant gear shuffling that we’ve noticed in many other nine-speeds, and I never detected a moment’s indecision . . . " ).
.
 

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Ford to build an 8-speed transmission in Michigan

DETROIT — The gearbox Ford Motor Co. is spending $350 million to add to its Livonia transmission plant in suburban Detroit will be a front-wheel-drive eight-speed, according to an internal company memo obtained by Automotive News.

The memo, dated last June, said the eight-speed will begin production in October.

The transmission is based on the nine-speed developed with General Motors, according to a source with knowledge of the company’s plans. Ford removed a gear to save on costs and improve performance, said the source, who requested anonymity discussing internal plans.
--------------------------------------

If Ford dropped a gear to save money and improve performance, it's doubtful that there will be a Ford or Lincoln 9-speed. BMW also does an 8-speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Thanks for the multiple reviews 2b2! :) I'm still curious why the 9 speed automatic hasn't appeared yet in any FMC/LMC products? With Honda's recent introduction of the first 10 speed automatic transmission for front wheel drive vehicles, I'm not sure why there are reports Ford is considering introducing an 8 speed automatic transmission?
 

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Well, I am not the expert on transmissions, but from what I have read is that the number of gears has a lot to do with ratios and lowering RPMs while still offering enough power. Which means that one transmission at gear 10 and another at gear 9 or 8 can have the same gear ratios, but for more power, the 10 speed has to shift further down than a 9 and then the 8. So at highway cruising, each new 8, 9 or 10 speed can offer the same benefits, but when power is needed, the more the gears the more work(hunting) the transmission has to do to find a gear that offers the needed power. Maybe this is what Ford and BMW were thinking about when offering an 8-speed for better 'performance' along with better fuel efficiency.
 

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I was under the impression the hunting you refer to would be an issue with dual clutch gearboxes, however the conventional auto wouldn't hunt and would shift directly to the desired gear. Like yourself, though, I'm no expert.
 

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That sounds about right, if not early since the first cars to get the 8F won't be in production until August (Edge/Nautilus). I imagine they need to build up a reliable inventory however to get them to their factories.
 

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Interesting article on Ford not using the 9-Speed Trans from GM!

Sorry.....couldn't figure out how to hyperlink the article
"https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-refuses-to-use-gms-9-speed-automatic-transmission/ar-AAwds7T?ocid=spartanntp"

source:
Ford Refuses To Use GM's 9-Speed Automatic Transmission
Motor1
- Adrian Padeanu, Editor - APR 23, 2018
Thanks, but no thanks.

On April 15, 2013, Ford and General Motors signed an agreement to jointly use automatic transmissions developed by the two automakers. The Blue Oval’s part of the deal was to share its own 10-speed gearbox catering rear-wheel-drive cars with GM and in return have access to a 9-speed ‘box to be used in FWD models...

source of the source: AutomotiveNews that wants you to pay them a $UB$CRIPTION
.
 

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This has been repeated on virtually all of my favorite sites this morning. Most are leaving out a key piece of information, however. Specifically, from Automotive News:

"Ford didn't get quite the result it anticipated from the arrangement, signed five years ago this month. It has elected not to use GM's nine-speed transmission out of the box, opting instead for a series of new eight-speed transmissions on vehicles such as the Ford Edge, Ford Transit Connect and Lincoln Nautilus.

The first of those is based off the nine-speed, dropping one of the gears. The second eight-speed, for higher-performance vehicles such as the upcoming Edge ST and V-6 version of the Nautilus, adapts a six-speed that was co-developed with GM as part of a 2002 tie-up. A third eight-speed is expected for smaller, lower-torque vehicles."


I had no idea that the Edge ST and Nautilus were using a modified version of the existing 6-speed. I hope the shift logic is improved.
 

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This has been repeated on virtually all of my favorite sites this morning. Most are leaving out a key piece of information, however. Specifically, from Automotive News:

"Ford didn't get quite the result it anticipated from the arrangement, signed five years ago this month. It has elected not to use GM's nine-speed transmission out of the box, opting instead for a series of new eight-speed transmissions on vehicles such as the Ford Edge, Ford Transit Connect and Lincoln Nautilus.

The first of those is based off the nine-speed, dropping one of the gears. The second eight-speed, for higher-performance vehicles such as the upcoming Edge ST and V-6 version of the Nautilus, adapts a six-speed that was co-developed with GM as part of a 2002 tie-up. A third eight-speed is expected for smaller, lower-torque vehicles."


I had no idea that the Edge ST and Nautilus were using a modified version of the existing 6-speed. I hope the shift logic is improved.
They aren't.
 
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