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Re: No thanks, Ford says to 9-speed offered by GM

The headline has nothing to do with either the facts, reality or the body of the story itself, for that matter.

More gotcha headlines, in this case fake as well, trying to get readers attention.
I thought Ford was just modifying the GM 9 speed to 8 speeds.
 

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Re: No thanks, Ford says to 9-speed offered by GM

I thought Ford was just modifying the GM 9 speed to 8 speeds.

Indeed that is correct. But, it’s how it’s headlined that frustrates me. The way they worded it, one might believe that Ford tested a GM-designed transmission and THEN decided it did not meet Ford’s criteria, and then went off and modified it on their own. Just not the case. GM took the design lead on the 9-speed, but Ford still had involvement, which included an early decision to adapt the design for 8 speeds instead. You don’t just suddenly make that decision, and leave out some parts/gears. In the end, the co-development cost advantage was still there, mostly, as there was some additional cost I am sure. Ford basically cast a different casing, which they do anyway, to accommodate the GM designed internals.
 

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No thanks, Ford says to 9-speed offered by GM

^ I remember having the impression that just the software/controls were supposed to be diff

AN said:
..."Typically, if anyone gave me a transmission that didn't require much work, outside of tuning it for a specific vehicle, I would take it and run," Dave Sullivan, analyst with AutoPacific Inc., told Automotive News. "It's a lot of design work after the fact to come up with their own flavor. It shows there might be some different schools of thought in terms of transmission efficiency."

GM, meanwhile, has said the nine-speed adds refinement, giving its vehicles a more premium feel. It has launched the nine-speed and 10-speed transmissions on a number of vehicles...
when I saw which GM models got their 9-speed, =higher trims, it seemed it must be expensive

AN said:
..."I don't know if it necessarily delivers for all applications," Sullivan said.

GM, though, contends that the nine-speed offers a better driving experience than the eight-speed it replaced...
Did GM ever replace the AISIN 8-speed?? ...remember seeing complaints about SOME "GM" 8-speed

AN said:
How GM, Ford share
Among the 1st vehicles to get new transmissions from a joint development agreement between GM and Ford
10-speed (developed by Ford)
2017 Ford F-150
2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
2018 Ford Expedition
2018 Ford Mustang
2018 Lincoln Navigator
2018 Cadillac Escalade
2018 Chevrolet Tahoe
2018 GMC Yukon
2019 Chevrolet Silverado
9-speed (developed by GM)
2017 Chevrolet Cruze diesel
2017 Chevrolet Malibu
2018 Buick Enclave
2019 Buick Envision
2018 Buick Regal
2018 Chevrolet Equinox
2018 Buick LaCrosse
2018 Chevrolet Traverse
2018 GMC Terrain
8-speed ([Not Just] based on GM-developed 9-speed)
2019 Ford Edge
2019 Ford Focus
2019 Ford Transit Connect
2019 Lincoln Nautilus...
 

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I do remember in an interview Ford, actually mentioning their 'family' of 8-speed transmissions that I didn't quite understand, which gives credibility to the list offered by autonews.

1) The first of those is based off the nine-speed, dropping one of the gears.

2) The second eight-speed, for higher-performance vehicles such as the upcoming Edge ST and V-6 version of the Nautilus, adapts a six-speed that was co-developed with GM as part of a 2002 tie-up.

3) A third eight-speed is expected for smaller, lower-torque vehicles.
 

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Mercury C557
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Re: No thanks, GM ...Ford says to 9-speed

^ really??
pretty sure today is first I've seen [or remember
]
brucelinc @ BON said:
Have we ever learned how much torque the GM 9 speed can handle? Is it possible that to beef up the gears and bearings to handle high torque it was necessary to convert the gearbox to an 8 speed? Or is it possible that it simply cannot be modified to handle higher loads and it was more effective to add speeds to the 6F? GMs only high powered front driver is the XTS and it doesn't use the 9 speed.
:thumb:
& a comment @ TTAC
I'm not convinced we've heard the whole truth & nothing-but YET...


&
akirby said:
And Ford is so cost conscious now it would be surprising if they didn't share the new 8/9 speed design as much as possible. And if it can't handle all those different workloads then the design or requirements were flawed.
I find it hard to believe that they'd cut down the 9 speed to an 8 speed for durability, only to then develop ANOTHER 8 speed based on an old 6-speed design.
can't see 3 being cheaper to build than 1 -- NOR engineer
but
CAN kinda see a reason for the third being HYBRID-ready/optimized, for lower petrol-power(=~half!) and needing to be as light as possible
 

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You sure? Automotive News gets such details right most of the time.
Why on earth would they spend billions (or whatever it cost) to develop an 8/9 speed with GM, only to then simultaneously develop ANOTHER not one but TWO other 8 speed transmissions based off an old architecture? Makes zero sense. If you're starting the co-development project from scratch, would you not have the design parameters include versions for the higher power units you need?

I have no doubt there are different versions for different power levels, but much like the current 6-speed, they're versions of the same basic design optimized for the different power levels. Anything else doesn't make sense.

I do remember in an interview Ford, actually mentioning their 'family' of 8-speed transmissions that I didn't quite understand, which gives credibility to the list offered by autonews.

1) The first of those is based off the nine-speed, dropping one of the gears.

2) The second eight-speed, for higher-performance vehicles such as the upcoming Edge ST and V-6 version of the Nautilus, adapts a six-speed that was co-developed with GM as part of a 2002 tie-up.

3) A third eight-speed is expected for smaller, lower-torque vehicles.
"Family of 8-speeds" can just refer to different power ratings the way the current 6-speed has different power ratings.
 

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Why on earth would they spend billions (or whatever it cost) to develop an 8/9 speed with GM, only to then simultaneously develop ANOTHER not one but TWO other 8 speed transmissions based off an old architecture? Makes zero sense. If you're starting the co-development project from scratch, would you not have the design parameters include versions for the higher power units you need?

I have no doubt there are different versions for different power levels, but much like the current 6-speed, they're versions of the same basic design optimized for the different power levels. Anything else doesn't make sense.
It does make sense. There is a lot to indicate that the GM gearbox is torque-limited. If that's true, Ford was always going to need at least one alternate gearbox. The existing 6-speed is a proven design, so modifying it makes more sense than starting from scratch. As for the "other" 8-speed for low-torque models, I wasn't expecting it at all. I'm anxious to hear more about it though.
 

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Re: No thanks, GM ...Ford says to 9-speed

^ really??
pretty sure today is first I've seen [or remember
]

:thumb:
& a comment @ TTAC
I'm not convinced we've heard the whole truth & nothing-but YET...


&
can't see 3 being cheaper to build than 1 -- NOR engineer
but
CAN kinda see a reason for the third being HYBRID-ready/optimized, for lower petrol-power(=~half!) and needing to be as light as possible

Ford Math?
 

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I do remember in an interview Ford, actually mentioning their 'family' of 8-speed transmissions that I didn't quite understand, which gives credibility to the list offered by autonews.

1) The first of those is based off the nine-speed, dropping one of the gears.

2) The second eight-speed, for higher-performance vehicles such as the upcoming Edge ST and V-6 version of the Nautilus, adapts a six-speed that was co-developed with GM as part of a 2002 tie-up.

3) A third eight-speed is expected for smaller, lower-torque vehicles.
Is the 3rd 8 speed a DCT?
 

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Mercury C557
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Re: No thanks, GM ...Ford says to 9-speed

^ the ONLY bad DCT from Ford was the DRY-clutch one the Focus got :facepalm:
Ford Math?
bzcat @ B0N said:
Put me in the camp that says 3 different 8 speed transmissions doesn't make any sense.

I think the article maybe just splitting hair. The 3 different 8 speed transmissions could be just 3 different versions with different torque rating. Like how Ford has 4 different 6F versions but they are pretty much the same.

If we assume the GM-Ford JV FWD transmission is a further development of the existing 6F, then whether you subtract 1 gear from 9F or add 2 gears to 6F is just word play.
so ^ NO
Is the 3rd 8 speed a DCT?
I keep expecting that Getrag 7-speed DCT [wet] ...but NO afaik
 

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The 9 speed should be about a year from now, maybe slightly longer.
GM launches in about a year. Is a few months really worth all the drama and concern.

And NO, Lincoln should not have waited.
That's not how they typically do things.

Ford has opted out of the 9 speed saying it is too heavy to provide any mpg improvement. They supposedly have an internal 7 speed that they are going to use...............to be continued I guess
 

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Ford has opted out of the 9 speed saying it is too heavy to provide any mpg improvement. They supposedly have an internal 7 speed that they are going to use...............to be continued I guess
8 Speed.
 
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