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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/us/07mcnamara.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/06/robert.mcnamara.obit/index.html

this link points out his FoMoCo years:
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Dato=20030616&Kategori=SUB&Lopenr=306160755&Ref=AR

of course, the obits concentrate on his Kennedy-era appointment as Secretary of Defense, and his, arguably, mishandling of the Vietnam war, but let's not forget he was also one of the Ford 'whiz kids' brought in by Henry II at the end of the second world war to revitalize, let's just say SAVE the FoMoCo. Henry II had been let out of his navy service when it was clear that Henry I could no longer run the company after a series of strokes, and the first thing the young Ford did was hire a bunch of really smart, savvy, young business men. McNamara went on to become the president of the company just a short 10 weeks before he left to join John Kennedy's cabinet. McNamara was a bean counter first and foremost, but was the 'father' of the Falcon as well, feeling it was time for a more economical-to-own-and-drive Ford, and most likely is the one that pulled the plug on the Edsel. he was also among the execs in charge that gave Lincoln ONE MORE chance to right it's course at the end of the '50s, when there was gathering momentum to just delete the brand from FoMoCo's portfolio, and the seminal '61 Lincoln Continental was the result. RIP.
 

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The Spaminator
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Last time I checked, North Vietnam was allied with the USSR. Infact at the beginning of the war, Soviet flyers secretly flew Migs for the North.
Their lack of commitment to win is what got us into problems. Their strategy was flawed.
The blind trust in the UN and International institutions that do not have our best interest at heart while they run to us for help.
His party needs to cure itself of this illusion and engage on American terms… to protect American interests. His thinking still ails the Democratic Party approach to foreign policy.
He departed from the Roosevelt clarity on Global security issues which had successfully served the United States. He thought that if you drop a few bombs and then chat with the bombed, they will see the light and come to your side/view of things…
It’s the same view that his party suffers these days. Unfortunately, bad guys only understand one language, total defeat. To think you can talk your way out of a fight is elitist naivety. Vietnam proved that.
 

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The Spaminator
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Their lack of commitment to win is what got us into problems. Their strategy was flawed.
The blind trust in the UN and International institutions that do not have our best interest at heart while they run to us for help.
His party needs to cure itself of this illusion and engage on American terms… to protect American interests. His thinking still ails the Democratic Party approach to foreign policy.
He departed from the Roosevelt clarity on Global security issues which had successfully served the United States. He thought that if you drop a few bombs and then chat with the bombed, they will see the light and come to your side/view of things…
It’s the same view that his party suffers these days. Unfortunately, bad guys only understand one language, total defeat. To think you can talk your way out of a fight is elitist naivety. Vietnam proved that.

I comletely agree with you, I was just saying that the war with North Vietnam was stil against the Soviet block. The war was mishandled but it should have gone on to kick out the north out of the south forever. Unfortunetly for the area, Politics got involved here with lead to the murder of millions in the region.



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Discussion Starter #8
lol @ the democratic party not having the nation's best interests at heart.

the fact the you can't bomb yourself out of a problem [of your own making] is something the Republicans need to learn. that and to stop lying our way into unjust wars with despots we don't like but that offer absolutely zero risk to our national security.

you said your part, i said mine. done. i didn't post the McNamara obit for any political discussions. i posted it for his oft overlooked contributions, yea and nay, towards our beloved FoMoCo.

i have zero interest in ANYONE's political thoughts here. let me just post my chops and my car-related interests in peace. thank you.
 

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lol @ the democratic party not having the nation's best interests at heart.

the fact the you can't bomb yourself out of a problem [of your own making] is something the Republicans need to learn. that and to stop lying our way into unjust wars with despots we don't like but that offer absolutely zero risk to our national security.

you said your part, i said mine. done. i didn't post the McNamara obit for any political discussions. i posted it for his oft overlooked contributions, yea and nay, towards our beloved FoMoCo.

i have zero interest in ANYONE's political thoughts here. let me just post my chops and my car-related interests in peace. thank you.
Yes, you can bomb yourself out of a situation. Democrats did just that in WW II.

there is not a single global security problem caused by the USA. It may have been made worse by indecisive American action, but America never caused it…

Name one that USA caused?
 

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. . . there is not a single global security problem caused by the USA. It may have been made worse by indecisive American action, but America never caused it…

Name one that USA caused?

lol @ the democratic party not having the nation's best interests at heart.

the fact the you can't bomb yourself out of a problem [of your own making] is something the Republicans need to learn. that and to stop lying our way into unjust wars with despots we don't like but that offer absolutely zero risk to our national security.

you said your part, i said mine. done. i didn't post the McNamara obit for any political discussions. i posted it for his oft overlooked contributions, yea and nay, towards our beloved FoMoCo.

i have zero interest in ANYONE's political thoughts here. let me just post my chops and my car-related interests in peace. thank you.
Thank you artandcolour. I used to respond to the substance of these type of political smear which nothing more than a sad echo of what the the radical wing of the GOP spew out there day after day. Now I see that there is no point in fighting hate, eventually it will eat itself up. The American people have spoken and this type of hate speech has been rejected. I should have posted what you just posted here, a long time ago. Again, thank you!

Why not we instead discuss the automotive achievements and misfortunes of Mr. McNamara who was a central player in Ford's management during the 40s, 50s and early 60s?

To his credit there will always be the Falcon and being the first non-Ford to achieve the title of president of the Ford Motor Company. To his eternal disgrace (although I don't think he ever saw it that way) the fact that he killed the two-seater Thunderbird in 1958 (which made him the father of the wildly successful 1958 Thunderbird, a.k.a. Squarebird)
 

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Thank you artandcolour. I used to respond to the substance of these type of political smear which nothing more than a sad echo of what the the radical wing of the GOP spew out there day after day. Now I see that there is no point in fighting hate, eventually it will eat itself up. The American people have spoken and this type of hate speech has been rejected. I should have posted what you just posted here, a long time ago. Again, thank you!

Why not we instead discuss the automotive achievements and misfortunes of Mr. McNamara who was a central player in Ford's management during the 40s, 50s and early 60s?

To his credit there will always be the Falcon and being the first non-Ford to achieve the title of president of the Ford Motor Company. To his eternal disgrace (although I don't think he ever saw it that way) the fact that he killed the two-seater Thunderbird in 1958 (which made him the father of the wildly successful 1958 Thunderbird, a.k.a. Squarebird)
When people state fact is called hate speech? he he... We are analysing the man.
We cannot separate his life into only one aspect. Stating a mans errors is now hate speech? Wow!!You want pictures to illustrate political folly?



Change we can all beleive in.How long did that take? 6 months?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Tahoe: unless you have something to add to this thread vis-a-vis McNamara's tenure at Ford, whatever you are trying to say will go unchallenged. consider the bait NOT TAKEN.
 

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When people state fact is called hate speech? he he... We are analysing the man.
We cannot separate his life into only one aspect. Stating a mans errors is now hate speech? Wow!!You want pictures to illustrate political folly?



Change we can all beleive in.How long did that take? 6 months?
Either you are being brutally dishonest or your lack of historical knowledge is such that anything I can tell you would be useless. I will give you a try though.

You are sorely mistaken if you think that president of the US shaking hands with two other heads of state (despite how bad we may think they are) is the same thing as the Secretary of Defense signing arm deals with Saddam Hussein after Hussein had already (and very publicly) gassed the kurds.

You asked for an example of US cause world security problem and I gave you an undisputed historical fact, that Gerry Ford, by means of his Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld armed Saddam Hussein to fight Iran . . . the kurds for whom GWB hearts bled for so many years (oh, he gassed his people!) were just collateral damage. Want more? How about Ronald Reagan arming Osama Bin Laden to fight the soviets in Afghanistan.

How many death have Obama's hand shakes with Chavez and Morales caused Tahoe? How many? You should be ashamed of yourself Tahoe, either for being so dishonest of for being such an ignorant. You have the power to fix both, you know.

Be also advised that any further discussion should go on on the Diablo's Den or whatever is called.

Bye and kisses Tahoe . . .

 

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I do not think any of you will change the others mind.. so, perhaps its best if we wish the man eternal rest in a better place?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
. . . or talk about his time in the Ford Motor Company which was the purpose of this thread, I believe.

that was the original intention, yes! i've always been super interested in the history of the automobile. i remember reading about the 'whiz kids' when i was an actual kid... there are periods in time that determine the future in very real ways, as opposed to those that seem to be just marking time or treading water, and the late 40s, and the late 50s/early 60s were two of those times. McNamara was right there, for FoMoCo, in those critical periods. the '49 Ford has been credited with saving the company, and the advent of the domestic compacts in the fall of '59 was a watershed moment as well.

i've been watching the MJ memorial today. while i have been VERY critical of him in the past, being a survivor of childhood abuse myself, there is a time to realize we are all humans, probably doing the best we can on this earth at any given time. while i certainly don't advocate forgetting transgressions, there is a time, for oneself, as well as for each other, that forgiveness is necessary. i'd say that McNamara, not a stupid or ignorant man, spent the majority of his life thinking about those 50,000+ americans, and who knows how many Vietnamese, that died in the Vietnam war. i don't think there is anything we could add amongst ourselves that hadn't already ruined the rest of his life.
 

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I did not know McNamara worked at Ford. Well, He certainly killed the 2 Seat T bird, but it came back in the late last century.

RIP, let the by gones be by gones. Vietnam is history. He is with his maker now.
 
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