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Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake
Oct. 21, 2014 23:18 CET
Auto News Europe



FRANKFURT -- Daimler AG on Tuesday said it would book a $780 million windfall from selling its 4 percent stake in rival electric car maker Tesla Motors Inc.

A cooperation agreement to supply Mercedes-Benz cars with Tesla battery technology will remain unaffected by the sale, Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche said in a statement.

"Our partnership with Tesla is very successful and will be continued," Zetsche said.

The sale of Daimler's stake in Tesla will result in a cash inflow of around $780 million, boosting earnings before interest and taxes by a similar amount for 2014. Proceeds from the sale will be used to strengthen Daimler's operations, the company said.

"We are extremely satisfied with the development of our investment in Tesla, but it is not necessary for our partnership and cooperation. For this reason, we have decided to divest of our shares," Daimler CFO Bodo Uebber said in a statement.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/...780-million-windfall-from-sale-of-tesla-stake
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake

I think there is more behind this story....

Question........Now why would Daimler sell off their 4% state in Tesla that has already paid off tremendously from a financial perspective, and right before Tesla launches it's much anticipated Model X, new smaller Model E and before the launch of the first GigaFactory? But sits back and decides to become just a 'customer'.

I think it is the same reason we should hear a similar announcement from Toyota very soon, who has made a U-Turn as it relates to EVs and is moving down the fuel cell road. A road that Musk of Tesla stated was not a wise one.

I think it's because Tesla Motors and Ford will become one. With Musk holding on to his GigaFactories and global network of Supercharger Stations.

Which also would explain why it seems Ford is moving so slowly with launching longer range plug-in hybrids and EVs, and why Lincoln has no plug-in vehicle in it's line-up while the Fusion Energi share a platform and hybrid drivetrain with the Lincoln MKZ. And Lincoln is in no hurry and does not seem concerned that it's competition, Audi, Mercedes-Bans, Porsche, Volvo, BMW and even Cadillac are all coming strong with plug-in hybrid vehicles now and more in the next couple years.

Just think about it.....Tesla is still running at a loss. But Tesla has the drivetrain, battery packs and global charging infrastructure. Ford has the cash, global manufacturing, design and distribution infrastructure to move the products on a massive global scale to take this start up selling about 25k units annually to a whole new level.

Ford was designing aluminum cars before Tesla started business.

So I expect the next generation Ford/Lincoln plug-in hybrid and EVs to come with Tesla packs along with Tesla drivetrains.......or they may be Ford drivetrains by that time. I also expect these larger more powerful battery packs to be able to charge at the Tesla Superstations, right next to Ford owned Tesla models.

By the way, the Ford Energi and hybrid models use the same Panasonic batter cells as the Tesla Model S. Where Ford build the battery packs in-house. Also, the 2015 Focus Electric has moved it's battery pack assembly in-house also, while currently still using the LG Chem battery cells. But that is expected to change once the next gen Focus Electric gets a Tesla pack.

The pieces are quietly coming together. Some seem to be random, some make no sense, like the Daimler stock sale, but it's in what they don't say and their actions that matter.
 

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Re: Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake

I think there is more behind this story....

Question........Now why would Daimler sell off their 4% state in Tesla that has already paid off tremendously from a financial perspective, and right before Tesla launches it's much anticipated Model X, new smaller Model E and before the launch of the first GigaFactory? But sits back and decides to become just a 'customer'.

I think it is the same reason we should hear a similar announcement from Toyota very soon, who has made a U-Turn as it relates to EVs and is moving down the fuel cell road. A road that Musk of Tesla stated was not a wise one.

I think it's because Tesla Motors and Ford will become one. With Musk holding on to his GigaFactories and global network of Supercharger Stations.

Which also would explain why it seems Ford is moving so slowly with launching longer range plug-in hybrids and EVs, and why Lincoln has no plug-in vehicle in it's line-up while the Fusion Energi share a platform and hybrid drivetrain with the Lincoln MKZ. And Lincoln is in no hurry and does not seem concerned that it's competition, Audi, Mercedes-Bans, Porsche, Volvo, BMW and even Cadillac are all coming strong with plug-in hybrid vehicles now and more in the next couple years.

Just think about it.....Tesla is still running at a loss. But Tesla has the drivetrain, battery packs and global charging infrastructure. Ford has the cash, global manufacturing, design and distribution infrastructure to move the products on a massive global scale to take this start up selling about 25k units annually to a whole new level.

Ford was designing aluminum cars before Tesla started business.

So I expect the next generation Ford/Lincoln plug-in hybrid and EVs to come with Tesla packs along with Tesla drivetrains.......or they may be Ford drivetrains by that time. I also expect these larger more powerful battery packs to be able to charge at the Tesla Superstations, right next to Ford owned Tesla models.

By the way, the Ford Energi and hybrid models use the same Panasonic batter cells as the Tesla Model S. Where Ford build the battery packs in-house. Also, the 2015 Focus Electric has moved it's battery pack assembly in-house also, while currently still using the LG Chem battery cells. But that is expected to change once the next gen Focus Electric gets a Tesla pack.

The pieces are quietly coming together. Some seem to be random, some make no sense, like the Daimler stock sale, but it's in what they don't say and their actions that matter.
Whatever you say, Mr. Conspiracy Theory.

#wishfulthinking
 

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Re: Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake

I think there is more behind this story....



tho I'd find it easier to believe in some kind of joint-co-operation** than buying Tesla outright;
I'm busy fleshing out my new-hybrid-series lineup
the C# platform cars are
- Lincoln MKE (possibly E-model mate)
- miniSport (closest to an electrified Grand C-Max)
- Cortina (slightly shorter wlb sedanatch)
- Capri (possibly still-shorter wlb coupatch)

& kinda wonder about any large-ish BEV Lincolns tho guess platform-mates are as possible as the MKE/E-model...



** edit
is there such a thing as CorporateRentToOwn?? :angel
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake

^....not buying Tesla, but just a merger with the car business, excluding the battery manufacturing and global supercharger business. So there would still be Tesla Motors, but owned by Ford and more financial backing.

Sharing Tesla platforms, batteries, drivetrains across Ford and Lincoln models.

But Toyota and Ford won't be in the same deal, so just like Daimler sold their stake due to what's coming next, expect Toyota to do the same rather quickly.
 

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Re: Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake

^....not buying Tesla, but just a merger with the car business, excluding the battery manufacturing and global supercharger business. So there would still be Tesla Motors, but owned by Ford and more financial backing.

Sharing Tesla platforms, batteries, drivetrains across Ford and Lincoln models.

But Toyota and Ford won't be in the same deal, so just like Daimler sold their stake due to what's coming next, expect Toyota to do the same rather quickly.
OK :thumb:

care to speculate?

- I'd hate to see "Tesla" disappear
- would the "S" continue?
- are the vaporware X & E planned to be Ford platformed?
- wouldn't Tesla's market cap be awfully expensive?
- what about the Tesla/NUMMI factory?
 

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Re: Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake

Sorry but FORD is not buying/acquiring Tesla. They can (and will) do what Tesla does by themselves any actually make money while doing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Daimler sees $780 million windfall from sale of Tesla stake

OK :thumb:

care to speculate?

- I'd hate to see "Tesla" disappear
- would the "S" continue?
- are the vaporware X & E planned to be Ford platformed?
- wouldn't Tesla's market cap be awfully expensive?
- what about the Tesla/NUMMI factory?
I wouldn't think Tesla would go anywhere, like Jaguar or Land Rover didn't go anywhere. So Tesla would still continue to expand the all electric Luxury model line-up, while Ford models used Tesla/Ford EV platforms and drivetrains.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Tesla share sales: Reuters ...& rumors!

Toyota sells some Tesla shares - Reuters
Autonews


TOKYO (Reuters) -- Toyota Motor Corp. has sold some of its shares in U.S. electric vehicle maker Tesla Motors Inc., the Nikkei financial newspaper reported.

Toyota invested $50 million in Tesla in May 2010, ahead of the company's initial public offering in June that year.

Toyota said at the time the investment would give it a stake of about 2.5 percent in Tesla, but the size of its current stake is not clear.

Tesla's shares closed Thursday at $235.29, up almost 2 percent, in New York trading. The June 2010 IPO price was set at $17 a share.

California-based Tesla has been supplying batteries and motors for Toyota's RAV4 electric SUVs that went on sale in 2012, but that arrangement is set to end this year after Toyota sold just 2,000 of the vehicles.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has said the company could sign a new deal with Toyota over the next two to three years.

Daimler AG, the parent of Mercedes-Benz, said earlier this week it sold its remaining 4 percent stake in Tesla for a gain of $780 million. Daimler took a 9.1 percent stake in Tesla for around $50 million in May 2009.

Tesla and Toyota representatives could not immediately be reached for comment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Toyota sells some Tesla shares

First Daimler.....http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forum...aimler-sees-780-million-windfall-from-sale-of

Now Toyota......which means Tesla is just about clear from outside ownership and ready for a merger.

But didn't expect Toyota to bail this fast, but bailing was expected. Things are moving fast, which could mean an expected announcement about a tie-up between Ford and Tesla is due by next month, or by end of year.

Something is brewing......
 

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Re: Toyota sells some Tesla shares - Reuters

the plot thickens
just like you said, Bloggin :thumb:

now what I'm wondering is...
...IF FoMoCo is shopping...
WHEN should they say anything?
( of course AFTER the deal is done but...)
Could they keep it under wraps until at least the first new vehicle is ready to be shown in production trim?

&
when is the Model-X supposed to show? not long?
and when for the "3"/"E"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Toyota sells some Tesla shares - Reuters

the plot thickens
just like you said, Bloggin :thumb:

now what I'm wondering is...
...IF FoMoCo is shopping...
WHEN should they say anything?
( of course AFTER the deal is done but...)
Could they keep it under wraps until at least the first new vehicle is ready to be shown in production trim?

&
when is the Model-X supposed to show? not long?
and when for the "3"/"E"?
I think Elon will say something well before Ford is ready to say something if this is happening. It's just that so many things are so odd on the Ford side. Their major competitors all have strong electrification plans, Mercedes-Bens with 10 plug-ins by 2017, and VW and Audi with at least 8 coming between the two brands in the same timeframe. Then there is General Motors announcing their 200 mile EV by 2016 and and new longer range Volt coming next year, when Ford remains oddly silent. Which is more than the standard line 'we don't talk about future product plans', because they keep talking about 4 new Lincoln models by 2016, and being specific about a MKX, Navigator and New Large Car.

Then there is the fact that the now 4 year old Focus Electric has had zero drivetrain improvements and none are planned. Which indicates that the current drivetrain is at an end. Even the Energi models that are now 3 years old have had no updates, aside from the required software update tied to mpg overstatements. This too seems to indicate there is a shift in hardware/engineering coming that will impact the hybrid, plug-in and EV drivetrains. Enough of a change that Ford is not investing in incremental updates of current models.

The competition is coming hard and Ford had better have a good game plan if they intend to compete in the very near future.

What tipped off that there was something between Tesla and Ford was not only the glowing comments from Musk about Ford, while never mentioning the Focus Electric, hybrids or the Energi models, but for the manufacturing process with aluminum. While being critical of every other manufacturers EV or plug-in vehicle. Even Toyota's RAV4EV after the deal ended.

Then there was the very odd situation where Tesla just gave Ford the rights to Model E that Tesla had acquired rights to years earlier. It was like, 'no problem, we will just use something else'. No fight, no social media commentary??? That was the biggest red flag.

What I am expecting is that there will be an announcement about a 'partnership/merger' where Ford would invest in Tesla heavily or buy Tesla Motors outright. Tesla will get more upgraded interiors and more safety technology and shared components from Ford. Ford would share Tesla platforms, drivetrains and battery packs. For example, the upcoming Model III(Teslal's new compact EV with 200+ range under $35k) will have a less expensive Ford sibling sharing the same Tesla battery pack and drivetrain, replacing the Focus Electric. Where for other models, Tesla will remain the full EV, while Ford and Lincoln will have the hybrid and plug-in hybrid models with larger longer range Tesla battery packs.

Then there is the added plus of Ford and Lincoln 200+ mile EVs being able to charge at Tesla Superchargers worldwide.

When should we hear something? I would think between now and Thanksgiving. Definitely before the end of year.

But we will just have to wait and see what really happens.....
 

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Re: Toyota sells some Tesla shares - Reuters

I frequent Tesla forums more than Ford forums at this point, and I haven't heard an ounce of speculation regarding any sort of partnership between Tesla and Ford from the other side. There has to be more going on behind the scenes at Ford than we're aware of, but this seems a bit like grasping at straws. As a shareholder of both companies I want to see both do well, but the cultures seem a bit too different for a merger or acquisition at this point. I could see cross-licensing technologies, but wouldn't go farther than that.
 

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Tesla share sales: Reuters ...& rumors!



I'm gonna change the thread title



& edit
the following is from the "Lincoln won't build CLA rival, traditional flagship" thread from June
my only question is: if they are not going down and don't plan a full size sedan (not going up) where are they going? :angel :tongue:
it might be interesting to compare Mr. Van ****'s mystifying remarks from that to see how they fit this speculation
 

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Re: Toyota sells some Tesla shares - Reuters

...- are the vaporware X & E planned to be Ford platformed?...
the plot thickens
just like you said, Bloggin :thumb:

now what I'm wondering is...
...IF FoMoCo is shopping...
WHEN should they say anything?
( of course AFTER the deal is done but...)
Could they keep it under wraps until at least the first new vehicle is ready to be shown in production trim?

&
when is the Model-X supposed to show? not long?
and when for the "3"/"E"?
just saw this:
Tesla Model X Delayed (Again) Until The Third Quarter Of 2015 - Jollypop
Damon Lavrinc
11/05/14

- - - - - - - - -
...spiracie!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Toyota sells some Tesla shares - Reuters

Well........the Model X is 'supposed' to be riding on the current gen Model S platform, which means it should not take 3 years to produce. But it has.

Here is what I think.....

Tesla is getting some engineering/design help from someone with a century of experience building cars(Ford), so the Model X should have a few design/technology upgrades not found in the Model S.

Then there is the production schedules:

Lincoln MKX and Model X are both now launching in 2015.

Next Gen Lincoln MKS and Next Gen Model S are set to launch 2016/17.

Which means the Lincoln MKE(Ford's next gen 200 mile EV) and Model III should both launch 2017/2018

Platform sharing offers great cost benefits, which means models that share need to launch around the same time.

Still waiting for an official announcement before Thanksgiving........:thumb:
 

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Hmmm, kinda liking this idea... the occasional harmless conspiracy theory is fun... it wouldn't be hard to restyle a Model S into a sexy new fullsize Lincoln. Maybe THAT'S why there's no apparent plan for a larger Lincoln. Certainly they could do a 2-door model too. As for the Model X delay, maybe they have canned the original design and are working to stuff the platforma and drivetrain under the skirt of the MKX concept...?!

Back to your regularly scheduled reality... :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hmmm, kinda liking this idea... the occasional harmless conspiracy theory is fun... it wouldn't be hard to restyle a Model S into a sexy new fullsize Lincoln. Maybe THAT'S why there's no apparent plan for a larger Lincoln. Certainly they could do a 2-door model too. As for the Model X delay, maybe they have canned the original design and are working to stuff the platforma and drivetrain under the skirt of the MKX concept...?!

Back to your regularly scheduled reality... :p
Now you got me started again...

Just imagine.....the newly revised Model X platform/drivetrain designed to fit under the 2016 MKX/2015 Edge as an EV option. Under the 2015 Edge it would provide the 'affordable C or D segment EV' that Ford is talking about is needed. While the Tesla Model X will cost over $80k, the Edge Electric would cost about $50k($42,500 after fed tax credit), or an MKX Electric would cost about $60k($52,500 after fed tax credit).

Then slide that same platform/drivetrain under the Fusion/MKZ(could this be why there is no MKZ Energi?), that shares the same platform with Edge/MKX), for a 300 EV mile $50k Fusion Electric or $60k MKZ Electric.

With Tesla packs in the Ford EVs, and Ford/Lincoln models able to charge for free for X number of years, the Ford and Lincoln logos will appear on the Tesla Supercharger stations. Like Visa/Mastercard logos on ATM machines.

Seriously, Ford can't wait until a Combo Charger network is built out in the US before they offer 300+ mile EVs for interstate travel. When the Supercharger network is already there.

Also, at 300 miles per charge, the need to charge away from home drops dramatically from less than 20%, since home charging will top off the batteries with more miles that 99% of the public will drive in a days' time. But a 300+ mile pack offers long distance travel, and the viability to have an EV as an only car.

hummmm....
 
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