Surprise surprise surprise, do as we say or do something else!! Is it a wonder vast majorities of American's despise unions?
VW workers may block southern U.S. deals if no unions
VW workers may block southern U.S. deals if no unions: labor chief
Reuters
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Workers at VW's factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee, last Friday voted against representation by the United Auto Workers union (UAW), rejecting efforts by VW representatives to set up a German-style works council at the plant.
German workers enjoy considerable influence over company decisions under the legally enshrined "co-determination" principle which is anathema to many politicians in the U.S. who see organized labor as a threat to profits and job growth.
Chattanooga is VW's only factory in the U.S. and one of the company's few in the world without a works council.
"I can imagine fairly well that another VW factory in the United States, provided that one more should still be set up there, does not necessarily have to be assigned to the south again," said Bernd Osterloh, head of VW's works council.
"If co-determination isn't guaranteed in the first place, we as workers will hardly be able to vote in favor" of potentially building another plant in the U.S. south, Osterloh, who is also on VW's supervisory board, said.
The 20-member panel - evenly split between labor and management - has to approve any decision on closing plants or building new ones.
Osterloh's comments were published on Wednesday in German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung. A spokesman at the Wolfsburg-based works council confirmed the remarks.
"The conservatives stirred up massive, anti-union sentiments," Osterloh said. "It's possible that the conclusion will be drawn that this interference amounted to unfair labor praxis."
Republican U.S. Senator Bob Corker, a staunch opponent of unionization, said last Wednesday after the first day of voting that VW would award the factory another model if the UAW was rejected.
The comments even prompted U.S. President Barack Obama to intervene, accusing Republicans of trying to block the Chattanooga workforce's efforts.
Undeterred by last Friday's vote, VW's works council has said it will press on with efforts to set up labor representation at Chattanooga which builds the Passat sedan.
Reuters
Workers at VW's factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee, last Friday voted against representation by the United Auto Workers union (UAW), rejecting efforts by VW representatives to set up a German-style works council at the plant.
German workers enjoy considerable influence over company decisions under the legally enshrined "co-determination" principle which is anathema to many politicians in the U.S. who see organized labor as a threat to profits and job growth.
Chattanooga is VW's only factory in the U.S. and one of the company's few in the world without a works council.
"I can imagine fairly well that another VW factory in the United States, provided that one more should still be set up there, does not necessarily have to be assigned to the south again," said Bernd Osterloh, head of VW's works council.
"If co-determination isn't guaranteed in the first place, we as workers will hardly be able to vote in favor" of potentially building another plant in the U.S. south, Osterloh, who is also on VW's supervisory board, said.
The 20-member panel - evenly split between labor and management - has to approve any decision on closing plants or building new ones.
Osterloh's comments were published on Wednesday in German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung. A spokesman at the Wolfsburg-based works council confirmed the remarks.
"The conservatives stirred up massive, anti-union sentiments," Osterloh said. "It's possible that the conclusion will be drawn that this interference amounted to unfair labor praxis."
Republican U.S. Senator Bob Corker, a staunch opponent of unionization, said last Wednesday after the first day of voting that VW would award the factory another model if the UAW was rejected.
The comments even prompted U.S. President Barack Obama to intervene, accusing Republicans of trying to block the Chattanooga workforce's efforts.
Undeterred by last Friday's vote, VW's works council has said it will press on with efforts to set up labor representation at Chattanooga which builds the Passat sedan.
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I couldn't agree more!Surprise surprise surprise, do as we say or do something else!! Is it a wonder vast majorities of American's despise unions?
The German Works Council is on the side of the VW employees. The low wage employees at the only US plant is an global oddball and bringing down the average wage of the VW employee. On average the wage for building the same exact car is over $60.hr(total salary), compared with the TN plant at about $30/hr(total salary). The German plants are also highly profitable.
The TN employees are looked at as 'cheap' labor, which could grind down the salary of other plants, which lowers the quality of life of the employees. With the Republicans in TN working hard to keep the VW employees income low, knowing with less dollars, they will have less power in the state. Republicans need a undereducated, underemployed, economically poor population that is easy to dominate with fear tactics. But global VW Works Council sees though their efforts, as they have dealt with this issue before in other countries.
So there will be another vote very soon, and it will be overwhelmingly for the Union, which will benefit the underpaid VW employees more than they know.
The TN employees are looked at as 'cheap' labor, which could grind down the salary of other plants, which lowers the quality of life of the employees. With the Republicans in TN working hard to keep the VW employees income low, knowing with less dollars, they will have less power in the state. Republicans need a undereducated, underemployed, economically poor population that is easy to dominate with fear tactics. But global VW Works Council sees though their efforts, as they have dealt with this issue before in other countries.
So there will be another vote very soon, and it will be overwhelmingly for the Union, which will benefit the underpaid VW employees more than they know.
The TN plant isn't even three years old yet, there is no way the average employee is anywhere near max salary so soon. Older plants throughout the VW empire are going to have longer tenured employees with higher average pay.The German Works Council is on the side of the VW employees. The low wage employees at the only US plant is an global oddball and bringing down the average wage of the VW employee. On average the wage for building the same exact car is over $60.hr(total salary), compared with the TN plant at about $30/hr(total salary). The German plants are also highly profitable.
The TN employees are looked at as 'cheap' labor, which could grind down the salary of other plants, which lowers the quality of life of the employees. With the Republicans in TN working hard to keep the VW employees income low, knowing with less dollars, they will have less power in the state. Republicans need a undereducated, underemployed, economically poor population that is easy to dominate with fear tactics. But global VW Works Council sees though their efforts, as they have dealt with this issue before in other countries.
So there will be another vote very soon, and it will be overwhelmingly for the Union, which will benefit the underpaid VW employees more than they know.
As for Republicans needing undereducated, underemployed, and economically poor population I believe you have that one backwards, it is that very situation that gets Democrats elected.
And for the finally, nothing new there, they'll vote, and vote, and then they'll vote some more until unions and their Democrat enablers get what they want, desires of the workers be damned.
Do you really understand what is actually going on here? This is probably one of the worst articles I've seen about the current VW situation.Surprise surprise surprise, do as we say or do something else!! Is it a wonder vast majorities of American's despise unions?
Did you know that VW management is in favor of a union?
The anti union spew seems to run the most in the USA where the unions are the weakest of the industrialized world.
Ignorance is bliss definitely applies to the anti union crowd.
I am aware and the fact the better than half of the VW employees said no thanks tells you everything you need to know about the UAW. If unions stuck to their job of negotiating for their members and stayed out of politics where they spend members money on causes and candidates that many of their members do not support then maybe the unions wouldn't be so despised. The unions reputation is well deserved and they're suffering for it.Do you really understand what is actually going on here? This is probably one of the worst articles I've seen about the current VW situation.
Did you know that VW management is in favor of a union?
As a former member of a UAW union (aerospace) I can assure you I'm not ignorant to the issues, the negatives out weight the positives these days when it comes to unions. Just look to Detroit, not just the automakers but the entire city, its a union paradise!The anti union spew seems to run the most in the USA where the unions are the weakest of the industrialized world.
Ignorance is bliss definitely applies to the anti union crowd.
So the answer would be no you're not aware of what is actually going on there. Where does a senator have any business spewing idle threats at workers of VW if they unionize for one. I would advise you to dive a little further into this. Management at VW wanted a union and can you guess why? It's simple it's called organized structure in the workplace.I am aware and the fact the better than half of the VW employees said no thanks tells you everything you need to know about the UAW. If unions stuck to their job of negotiating for their members and stayed out of politics where they spend members money on causes and candidates that many of their members do not support then maybe the unions wouldn't be so despised. The unions reputation is well deserved and they're suffering for it.
As a former member of a UAW union (aerospace) I can assure you I'm not ignorant to the issues, the negatives out weight the positives these days when it comes to unions. Just look to Detroit, not just the automakers but the entire city, its a union paradise!
Sorry about your bad experience with UAW and aerospace. Wasn't the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers representing aerospace?
I have had a poor experience with the auto workers union as well, but I know that becoming non union is NOT a better alternative.
Again, I'm aware of the political involvement but not naive enough to believe that the President's party wasn't also working this issue. And so long as unions continue to be as involved in politics as they are rather than simply representing their members then I have zero issue with politicians offering their opinions.So the answer would be no you're not aware of what is actually going on there. Where does a senator have any business spewing idle threats at workers of VW if they unionize for one. I would advise you to dive a little further into this. Management at VW wanted a union and can you guess why? It's simple it's called organized structure in the workplace.
As for what VW wants, they want the workers councils which current legislation written for the unions does not allow in the US outside of a union company. VW would be just fine without the union, they simply desire organized input from their employees.
Yes, and they were excellent at keeping worthless people employed and ensuring that senior members got promotion for which they were unqualified while those of us who were did not. Further they had the amazing ability to hinder our ability to do our jobs efficiently with ridiculous rules they negotiate into the contracts. Yes those rules kept some people employed as removing the rules would have allowed fewer people to do the job, but in the end as often is the case with unions nobody has a job because the company couldn't compete and folded!!Sorry about your bad experience with UAW and aerospace. Wasn't the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers representing aerospace?
We'll have to agree to disagree. I will agree they served a very important role in this country at one time, but now they're known more for leaving a path of destruction in their wake than anything positive.I have had a poor experience with the auto workers union as well, but I know that becoming non union is NOT a better alternative.
Like I said you should really educate yourself about the current situation , http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-04/volkswagen-backs-union-vote-by-workers-at-chattanooga-car.htmlAgain, I'm aware of the political involvement but not naive enough to believe that the President's party wasn't also working this issue. And so long as unions continue to be as involved in politics as they are rather than simply representing their members then I have zero issue with politicians offering their opinions.
As for what VW wants, they want the workers councils which current legislation written for the unions does not allow in the US outside of a union company.
Well you are stuck in the past. You seem to forget that VW is a newer auto plant that has German roots. When they hired at VW they made people take tests so they could read , write and were physically able to do the jobs. What they did was pick the best of the best. The senior guy is as capable as the junior guy in the VW plant. If you think that people are worthless I would suggest to you that you work alone and never with others and avoid unions so you can enjoy yourself. Your past UAW aviation situation was how things use to be. It's not that unions haven't made mistakes it's the fact that people looking in from outside don't realize how much has changed these last few years.Yes, and they were excellent at keeping worthless people employed and ensuring that senior members got promotion for which they were unqualified while those of us who were did not.
You could say the same thing about the military.We'll have to agree to disagree. I will agree they served a very important role in this country at one time, but now they're known more for leaving a path of destruction in their wake than anything positive.
Okay, I've educated myself if that's what you call reading that link. In spite of my newfound education your link does nothing to dispel my previous points. VW is open to the UAW, ultimately they want a workers council and if our laws allowed it they've given no indication they wouldn't be happy to have one without a union. If the above article had some overriding point to you then you're clearly reading between the lines.Like I said you should really educate yourself about the current situation , http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-04/volkswagen-backs-union-vote-by-workers-at-chattanooga-car.html
I understand you're a union guy and my opinion is uncomfortable for you but you really need to stop putting words in other peoples mouths in order to make your point. I never said all union employees are worthless, only that many are and union rules still favor seniority over ability.Well you are stuck in the past. You seem to forget that VW is a newer auto plant that has German roots. When they hired at VW they made people take tests so they could read , write and were physically able to do the jobs. What they did was pick the best of the best. The senior guy is as capable as the junior guy in the VW plant. If you think that people are worthless I would suggest to you that you work alone and never with others and avoid unions so you can enjoy yourself. Your past UAW aviation situation was how things use to be. It's not that unions haven't made mistakes it's the fact that people looking in from outside don't realize how much has changed these last few years.
As analogies go this as about as absurd as they get. Unlike the military a union isn't expected to leave a path of destruction in its wake.You could say the same thing about the military.
I hope for this countries sake unions have changed as you say because their adversarial relationship with the very businesses on which they feed and with non-union workers is destructive to more than their employers.
VW is open to the UAW, ultimately they want a workers council and if our laws allowed it they've given no indication they wouldn't be happy to have one without a union.
There is no law that prevents this and VW was open to a workers council with or without a union. VW was open to having a union period.
There is no law that prevents this and VW was open to a workers council with or without a union. VW was open to having a union period.
In case you find the NYT far to conservative for your tastes we'll go with the Socialists:Many American labor experts say it would be illegal under federal law for a company to establish a works council unless workers first voted to have a union represent them. Without that, a works council might be viewed as an illegal company-dominated, company-created employee group.
“I don’t see any route to a works council without union representation under U.S. labor law,” said Kristin Dziczek, a labor expert at the Center for Automotive Research. “I don’t see how that happens.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/17/business/labor-regroups-in-south-after-vw-vote.html
There is apparently a lot of people in better position to know that you or I who say otherwise.The so-called “union drive” was an attempt by VW and the UAW to impose the UAW on a work force that did not support the discredited organization, which has not called a national auto strike in nearly four decades and devotes all of its efforts to suppressing the resistance of workers to layoffs, wages cuts and speedup. The UAW and the company attempted to blackmail the workers into voting for the union by suggesting that failure to bring in the UAW would result in a new SUV model being moved to Mexico.
Volkswagen executives were also visibly disappointed. Under US labor law, they required the UAW to provide a legal fig leaf to establish a German-style “works council,” a management-dominated body of workers and supervisors explicitly committed to the interests of the company.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/02/18/pers-f18.html
What ?..........Surprise surprise surprise, do as we say or do something else!! Is it a wonder vast majorities of American's despise unions?
No habla english?What ?..........
They key word is might be viewed as illegal. so for now it's not.Many American labor experts say it would be illegal under federal law for a company to establish a works council unless workers first voted to have a union represent them. Without that, a works council might be viewed as an illegal company-dominated, company-created employee group
There is apparently a lot of people in better position to know that you or I who say otherwise.
The point you miss is that VW is ok with a union and with a works council. The UAW was willing to work with this. What is so hard for you to understand here?
You win, interpret the english language as you please. VW doesn't have a works council because the lawyers they pay good money to have told them it would be illegal. I'll go ahead and forward you opinion to them so they can get this straight as clearly some guy on a forum understands that particular law better than they do.They key word is might be viewed as illegal. so for now it's not.
The point you miss is that VW is ok with a union and with a works council. The UAW was willing to work with this. What is so hard for you to understand here?
There is nothing that I find hard to understand outside of the fact that you're allergic to facts. Continue reading between the lines and inserting you desired outcome all you want! And while VW may have been willing to work with the UAW it appears more than half of their employees were not and that is the only thing that matters at this point.
so now we've gone from "labor experts" to VW's own lawyers. LOL What part of "VW being open to unionizing " and not having a problem with unions do you not understand?You win, interpret the english language as you please. VW doesn't have a works council because the lawyers they pay good money to have told them it would be illegal. I'll go ahead and forward you opinion to them so they can get this straight as clearly some guy on a forum understands that particular law better than they do.
There is nothing that I find hard to understand outside of the fact that you're allergic to facts. Continue reading between the lines and inserting you desired outcome all you want! And while VW may have been willing to work with the UAW it appears more than half of their employees were not and that is the only thing that matters at this point.
It's why I said this was a poor article in the first place. It was a senator and local government officials that was against the union and even made investment threats. That had more to do with the union not getting the majority vote than anything else. VW was expecting a union and was willing to work with the UAW. The UAW was willing to work on a "workers council" with VW as well but government (which is more corrupt that any union) stuck their nose in. Are these facts allergic?
None of it. What part of more than half of the employees weren't interested do you not understand?so now we've gone from "labor experts" to VW's own lawyers. LOL What part of "VW being open to unionizing " and not having a problem with unions do you not understand?
So in a prior post you suggest VW hired the best of the best for their new plant and now you suggest they cannot think for themselves. They had the UAW in one ear and some gubment peeps in the other, between the two lies a brain and they made their own choice.It's why I said this was a poor article in the first place. It was a senator and local government officials that was against the union and even made investment threats. That had more to do with the union not getting the majority vote than anything else.
Corrupt? Yes. More corrupt than the UAW? **** no.VW was expecting a union and was willing to work with the UAW. The UAW was willing to work on a "workers council" with VW as well but government (which is more corrupt that any union) stuck their nose in. Are these facts allergic?
You're not going to change my mind and I'm not changing yours so I'm done here...
... and I'm right! :tongue:
The employees were interested . I know they voted it down 712 to 626 votes but they were interested.What part of more than half of the employees weren't interested do you not understand?
If you would have read a little more about this situation you would have found out a senator there by the name of Bob Corker lied to VW employees to sway their vote. Bobby told the VW employees that the Tenenssee plant would get the 7 seat SUV production if they voted down the UAW. Guess what ................VW never said that and now because VW was open to union there may be no added production in Tenenssee.So in a prior post you suggest VW hired the best of the best for their new plant and now you suggest they cannot think for themselves. They had the UAW in one ear and some gubment peeps in the other, between the two lies a brain and they made their own choice.
I don't ever want you to change your mind I only wish for you to educate yourself. The more you try to be right the more you miss the mark.You're not going to change my mind
Keep an eye on this situation and learn from it.
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